Saying No Is A Healthy Choice with Erin Wilkins

The fastest way to burn out is to confuse compassion with unlimited access. We sit down with returning guest Erin Wilkins to talk about what happens when caregivers, healers, and helpers give so much away that they’re left depleted, foggy, and running on fumes and why “no” can be one of the healthiest choices you ever make.

We dig into the real-life mechanics of sustainable helping: reciprocity, boundaries, and the uncomfortable truth that people often treat your work as valuable only after you do. Joe shares lessons from running a nonprofit and hosting retreats at a healing space, including why donation-based models can fail when expectations are unclear and why paying staff (even modestly) can be a sign of stability, not greed. Aaron adds what changed when she finally set a clear price for her services and how that shift brought more respect and fewer people looking to be enabled.

Then we move from money boundaries to energy boundaries through Erin's animal sanctuary and small farm. With more than 130 animals at times, she explains the difference between rescuing and hoarding, how she screens for good homes, and why rehabbing and rehoming can be an act of love. We close with grounded healthy living tools that actually recharge you: garden time, greenhouse rituals, hydroponics, herbs, microgreens, and choosing rest without guilt.

If this conversation helps, subscribe, share it with a friend who gives too much, and leave a review so more people can find the show. What boundary do you need to set this week?

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Welcome Back And Life Updates

SPEAKER_03 0:13

Well, hello, and welcome back to the Healthy Living Podcast. I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, and today we've got a very special guest. She has recorded many episodes with us over the years, but hasn't for a few. And back with us is Aaron Wilkins. Welcome.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

Hi, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 0:31

It's good to good to see you, hear you again. And you've you've been absent for a bit, but you're always busy doing a lot of good things involved with the the healthy living world. And uh love to catch up and see what you've been up to.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's been way too long. This should have happened way sooner before now. Just kind of filling my plate a bit with um running an animal sanctuary, as well as doing a lot of teaching dance at the local college and just doing my own thing too. I think the biggest lesson in all that is sometimes you can care a little too much and you need to put yourself first.

SPEAKER_03 1:14

You know, that's interesting that you said that. I I just had a conversation with a mutual friend of ours that asked me to do a thing that in the years past I would have just done it. But over my life, I've learned that just giving your life away, giving yourself away all the time usually doesn't work out for the best. And I've had to learn some balance and realize that there's a reciprocity in the universe that if you're not part of, you'll pay into. It's a hard lesson because some of us have big hearts and we love people and we want to be a good force in the universe and all those good things that like instinctively it says, well, just say yes to everything.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

Yeah, yeah, no, and I think that we're programmed that way, especially healers, especially caregivers. That someone asks you for something, you're like, Oh my gosh, yeah, it doesn't matter if I'm extended, if it you know hurts me in the process of it. We're supposed to care for others, right? So here we are going out and caring, and it is it's a hard lesson because pretty soon you find yourself drained. And if you're not at 100%, you've got nothing to give. So you're really not

When Caring Too Much Backfires

SPEAKER_02 2:40

benefiting that other person, and saying no can be one of the healthiest things.

SPEAKER_03 2:46

Well, and and part of it is you have to recognize that you are one of the others, too. True, and so, like, if somebody came to you and didn't have anything to offer, and they says, I'm thinking about giving away more than I have to somebody, your advice to them would probably not be to go and do that. And nope, you would probably say, Well, you need to take care of yourself and you need to rest and heal and you know, eat right and do all those good things to be healthy. And then once you have a little something to give, then yeah, give. But for ourselves, we don't tend to we don't tend to practice what we preach all too good.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

No, we do not. And it, yeah, it is. It's a it's a good lesson, but it's a hard one. And you know, because you feel like you're letting people down. You feel like, oh my gosh, where is this person gonna go for that? But then it's like you have to, you have to. I mean, what's the the saying, like, love your neighbor as yourself, but what if you're not loving yourself? You can't really love your neighbor, and that's key.

SPEAKER_03 3:53

You just nailed it right there. You know, love your neighbor as yourself. You know, I've been working with a lot of healers in the gardens of hope for the last two years of people from all around the world have come with different practices and different faiths and different medicines and different, you know, all of these different things. But the one thing they all seem to have in common is the understanding of how important love is, and that that's what drives the healing. I've actually found myself being a sanctuary for healers as much as for the people the the regular folks getting the healing because uh with almost no exception, the healers push themselves too far. Yeah, they get what they call the psychic flu, you know, after they've done a ceremony or they've done a big you know event where they've helped a lot of people and done practice whatever form of work they do, and then you know, a week later they they're sick, and I'm like, why do you guys always get sick? You know, yeah, you know, you're an empath, and you you know what it's like to literally give your energy away to the point where you don't have any left, and so I've kind of like realized well, for myself as well, like when I was dealing with the cancer, I realized I had to take care of me and nothing else mattered, otherwise there was there wasn't gonna be a me. And that was quite eye-opening because once I came to that point, I kind of moved the bar, and it's never going back. And so now that I got a new a new lease on life, there's no way in hell I'm gonna I'm gonna let myself jeopardize that by handing it out too much, I guess would be the word, you know. Definitely there's always a time and a place where somebody who really needs something that truly can't, like every once in a while you find that bird that fell out of the nest that if you don't help it, it's gonna die. And every once in a while, but you you have intuition that says, Well, this is one that you gotta you gotta take one for the team for, and and all the rest of them, but we ignore our intuition a lot, and I think that's another lesson is to take that time to you know listen to that little inner voice you got.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

That's true. And if you're not taking care of yourself, you're not gonna really hear that very well. And yeah, I get it. I know I don't know how many times people have said, Well, Aaron, what about you? What are you doing for you? I'm like, why do I I don't need to do anything for me? And then you're like, wait a second. If I don't though, yeah, then I'm not gonna be effective. My intuition's

Reciprocity And The Cost Of Yes

SPEAKER_02 7:01

gonna be impaired. And that happened just last night. I was I was headed off to meet with a gentleman today that wanted to talk about starting like a recovery group, and I just had this weird feeling like, no, don't go, don't go, don't go. And I was like, but this is a good thing, and so it takes that going, like, it might be good, but what's the best?

SPEAKER_00 7:23

Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

You know, what's it gonna cost to get that good when if you were just to pause and rest and get the best?

SPEAKER_03 7:31

Right. Well, and yeah, I'm learning a lot running this nonprofit because I ran one before where literally I carried it on my back and I carried it for 15 years. I helped people all around the country, and eventually when I got sick, it fell apart because I couldn't keep it on my shoulders anymore. Now it's no longer. Well, this one I'm not doing that. I'm yeah, I'm saying if it's gonna stand on its own, it's gonna need people to help. And we've actually been going out applying for grants and getting some and building programs with some resources. But you know what's interesting? We applied for a grant recently, and their questions to us involved, why don't you have any payroll? Like, how does your business run when you're not paying anybody to work? And I have to answer that, you know, and a big wake-up call that said, you know, there's no other functioning nonprofit in the world that works and gets anything done. I mean, there's a lot of little ones, so it's one person runs it and get they it's their little hobby, but to actually help people in a substantial way, if you don't have that reciprocity where you've got somebody who's receiving so that they can give it's not sustainable. No, and so I'm now acknowledging that going, well, one of us has got to go on salary, and and it doesn't have to be a lot, but there's something about that that tells somebody who might want to support you, these guys are serious, yeah. And it also tells the universe that in a in a in a way that kind of counterintuitive a little bit, you know. You again, you think, well, we're nonprofits, so we're gonna give and give and give, and you know, we're gonna do the right thing, so people will make donations, and yeah, that happens sometimes, but not always. And yeah, maybe not enough to get it to get up and thrive. And so, yeah, we're learning a lot when it comes to that, and I'm actually having to you know look at that and say, well, I I I'm ready to make the commitment for this to be my career, and so you know, it's a it's a job as well as an offering, as well as you know, a calling and all of that stuff, and you know, hundreds and hundreds of people have come to this garden and been healed. And okay, so you know, even churches, they get you know, they're they're their priests get paid with some little stipend and a place to live and the food to eat, and they're taken care of. Yep, it doesn't, you know, it's just a normal thing, and people don't have a problem with it, it's not like a bad thing. I feel like, yeah, of course we take care of our people, and so anyways, I think that that's a weird lesson that I I I'm finding myself reckoning with in a in a substantial way. And I know I'm hoping that you're catching that one too, because you have so much to offer, you know, and sometimes life flips us upside down, says, You're listening yet.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

Uh-huh. No, it it is. It's like that, you know, like, oh, well, I'm a healer, so I'm just supposed to be here to heal whoever comes my way. And then I realized, like, but you know what? I've got years and years of experience in training. And once I started like setting a set price for like this, this is the price for my services, I did. I found that there was a lot more respect, a lot more people weren't just taking advantage of me. Um, I hated doing it because I feel like I just need to give and give and give, but you know, at what cost?

SPEAKER_03 11:30

You know, we've even had to do that, not in such a strict way, but we've always said, well, if somebody wants to come and do a retreat here, and whether it's you know running an overnight ceremony or a sweat lodge or whatever, many of the things that they do here, I said, you know, it's a donation base. I'm not gonna tell

Nonprofit Reality And Paying People

SPEAKER_03 11:50

you how much it costs. But there was a group that was coming out here regularly enough, and they they were doing a peyote ceremony that was you know up all night, and you know, 25-30 people would be on the property for the weekend. And oh wow, and then all of a sudden, you know, one time we didn't get anything, and then another time, and I was like, after a while, I'm like, look, I can't carry this on my back, you know, it costs me to have you here. You and it it, you know, even just to keep my toilets clean, it costs me just to for me to be here to help you. I'm not doing something else that I could be making, you know, resources with. And I actually had to sit with the roadman and say, look, I I can't do this anymore this way. And you know, even if you guys paid me 20 bucks a night, I I would be okay, you know, even if it was a little just, I mean, you go to a campground in Idaho to park there and get nothing other than a place to park your vehicle and you're gonna pay 30 bucks a night. Oh, absolutely, yeah. And and nobody has a problem with that, and so it was interesting because this weekend we had one with that same group, and I said, Look, I can't do this anymore this way, so you're gonna have to make sure, otherwise, I'm gonna have to step in and ask everybody, you know, are you helping out? How are you doing it? And it'll be uncomfortable, but I don't care. I'm an old guy, I don't care what anybody thinks. And and and sure enough, he stepped up, and this last ceremony they they covered more than they have in a long time, and everybody brought food, and everybody was it was it was downright pleasant, but and and I had to like you know reset, and the other side of it is some groups come through here and they're super generous. And I think to myself, well, why is one group amazing and makes me think, well, everybody's gonna be that way without me having to do anything, and then the other one is, well, the truth is we have to be the ones to set our value.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 14:06

Like when you did that, you said, Well, this is what I'm worth now, and not maybe I'm not for everybody, you know, I can't necessarily help, and maybe if I get more than I need, I can sponsor somebody once in a while and have a little scholarship or whatever, take a little sick bird in, but that yeah, that's not the norm.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 14:27

And and since you've done that, how have you noticed the shift in your clients, even with how they respond? Like I've realized that when I just say, Well, come and you know, if you want to make a donation, you can, if not, whatever. And sometimes somebody'll you know leave a couple of bucks or whatever. And I think to myself, Well, is that what they thought this was worth? Usually you don't even hear from them again. And I thought, wow, that's a yeah, that's a that was an odd experience. What's the lesson here?

SPEAKER_02 15:03

Yeah, yeah, no, and and I've definitely seen that. I feel like people that really are searching for answers, wanting to heal, wanting true help on their journey, they're like, Absolutely, whatever you charge, I'm there. It's those others that's like, poor me, can you help me with this? And then you feel bad, and then they usually want something else, or they don't want to make those changes. And you have to really just draw that hard line of I'm sorry, this is what it costs. Otherwise, you you I find the ones are just you get taken advantage of, they're really searching for something else that's probably not healing and probably something that I shouldn't be trying to assist them with anyway.

SPEAKER_03 15:44

So yep. Yeah, you find yourself what's the word, enabling absolutely,

Setting Prices Without Losing Heart

SPEAKER_03 15:50

yeah. Yeah, instead of helping. And you know what I've learned is you know, as we have this big garden that always needs help, I'd say, well, if you don't have money, then put some time in. Yeah, you know, come and donate your time or or or bring some yard tools or donate some seeds or something that that is an exchange. Yep. I've even created a place for me to take on an apprentice and you know, even offer a place to stay and all of those things, but it needs somebody that is willing to commit to it and do the work, and I'm not, you know, it's like the the old adage of you put a bowl of cat food out in the in the alley, and before you know it, you got you know a hundred stray cats coming to eat, and they're never gonna give you anything, they're not gonna do anything for you, and they may keep a few mice away, but the truth is they're just gonna be spraying all over your alley, and it's not gonna be very pleasant after a while. And it's kind of like that. I I got this one kid who I watched him, he was working hard, you know, to set these ceremonies up. It's a lot of work, you gotta prepare the grounds and you know, a lot of thought and care into preparing a sacred space, and somebody's gotta do that work, and uh one of the guys that was putting in the work, you know, cleaning things and just making it real good. And afterward, we were talking, and you know, he was telling me how he lost his job and he was looking for you know a fresh start and trying to get this and that. And I said, Well, I said there's a possibility that there could be an opportunity here for you. But the first thing I need from you is for you to really put some thought into this and you know, write out what your perfect life would be in great detail, because to me that's like a sign that somebody's willing to put an effort in. And then if the case, we can talk about it and say, Well, what are you doing about it? And you know, look at do an evaluation. And I thought to myself, well, if he's willing to do that and engage me from a distance without me having to put a lot of effort in, then maybe there's a play here, and then we could do a trial run. And as I suspected, it didn't happen. And I thought to myself, well, I'm sure glad I didn't just invite him in and say, Come on in, and we'll we'll put you up and we'll we'll figure it out. Because in the past I've done that, yeah, and it never worked. But this time he was here at the last ceremony and he told me, you know, I'm working on this thing, I got it written down, and you know, but I'm gonna go to North Dakota and get some work, save up some money, and then hoping to come back and work on that. Cool. You I it didn't take anything from me to have that little conversation instead of that. And so I'm learning as we go.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

Yeah, good.

SPEAKER_03 18:54

And so you've got a garden, you've got a a healing place, and you take care of you've got an animal sanctuary. Why don't you tell me a little bit about how that's been coming along?

SPEAKER_02 19:56

Oh, it's been good. We had probably, oh gosh, last count was over 130 animals. So taking a lot in. But this is where I've started to draw my line of, you know, I feel bad for these animals. A lot of them are in really bad shape. I take them in, I rehab. I'm learning that I can't hold on to all of those. Like I can take something in and rehab it, but then I just need to let it go and trust that there's another good home for it because that's where I'm starting to be overwhelmed.

Exchange Energy Through Time And Effort

SPEAKER_02 20:27

And then I'm not able to give not only to my family, but to all these animals that are dependent upon me. And so that's been my lesson in the last couple of weeks of yeah, okay, an animal needs you, but then after you make sure they're healthy and happy, then you find them a good home where they can continue to be loved and taken care of, but I don't need to hang on to them because I'm scared that you know they're not gonna have the perfect home.

SPEAKER_03 20:54

So, do you have a strategy for that? Do you have a way to reach out to people? Like, I know you you put the word out here and there. I don't know that you do any real advertising or anything about what you do, but again, that's an opportunity here on this podcast to tell people about what you're doing and how they can reach you and all that. We'll get to that at the end of the show. Um, but you know, how how do you find a home for for you know a rehabbing animal?

SPEAKER_02 21:25

Yeah, and I know it sometimes it can be hard. I I usually list there's a really cool Facebook website, a 208 helping animals. Uh-huh. And I usually start there, and then just as people start coming in with questions, I kind of screen them. And I'm usually able to use my intuition and know, like, okay, they're gonna be a good fit, or they're not gonna be a good fit, or this animal's not gonna be happy. So yeah, I've got today, I'm I'm rehabbing two animals today, a Euromastics lizard and and I'll and a banana morph python. So I've got someone driving

Animal Sanctuary Boundaries And Rehoming

SPEAKER_02 22:02

over two hours for the python. Okay, then one of my friends that is actual an animal carer as well, is taking the lizard. So I know that one will have a good home.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

All right, all right.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

But yeah, it's usually just a series of questions that I go through and make sure they know what they're doing, they're gonna love them, take care of them.

SPEAKER_03 22:20

And then about the animals that you have. What's the spectrum of animals?

SPEAKER_02 22:26

Oh my gosh. Well, I run my own small farm. So with that, you know, I've got my bees and my ducks and chickens. But outside of that, it's everything from lizards, snakes, spiders, salamanders, frogs, toads, ferrets, guinea pigs, giant millipedes, it's kind of all over the place.

SPEAKER_03 22:46

Well, all right, all right. I I suppose some would be easier to find homes than others.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

Yeah. Yeah, they're they both are kind of like different types of people. So someone that typically wants a guinea pig. Is way different than someone that wants a ball python.

SPEAKER_03 23:03

I would imagine, yeah, I would definitely imagine. Well, I guess aside from the winter time, it would it's you you could probably take care of just about anything. Wintertime, some of these guys need a warm place to be, so you've got to provide that for them, which is a whole nother layer. Like we've got a a Calcutta tortoise now. And oh wow. Yeah, yeah. We're we got a goat now, and you know, our our little our my wife loves her animals, and I love them too, but I I'm a little more practical about it. But yeah, the tortoise, he's he's he's a terror. He's he's got run of the property, and sometimes he just decides to mow through the vegetable garden and just eat everything in his way, and and uh now I'm having to put up little fences and tortoise-proof the place a little bit, and uh he's a character, and of course the goat's a goat, so she'll get out and eat anything she you know it's uh but she's a loving goat, so everybody likes her. She's she's uh kind of a star.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

That's awesome, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:19

Yeah, so you know, your little farm is in a lot of ways similar to ours, in that, you know, just a little little thing that we grow things to eat, and and it's it's a it's a place that you find that when you work in it, you help yourself. And so do you absolutely do you know dedicate a certain amount of time or a certain I mean I know obviously the chores you have to do to keep the farm running is its own thing, but do you sometimes just say, Well, I'm gonna do this because I want to? And I'm gonna do you take time to just sit and enjoy it.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 25:06

Oh, good.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

And and you have to. I know in my in my greenhouse this year I started a hydroponic system.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

Oh nice.

SPEAKER_02 25:13

Um, so that's been new, and I've got goldfish that are down in the bottom, and then it's I have this cool, so it's got the fountain sound. As soon as you walk into the greenhouse, the water's pouring out. And I'm growing basil. Um so yeah, yesterday I was able to harvest some tarragon basil and what was the other one that I marjoram. Okay, and so I and some chives, and so I got all those dried up and prepped, and just being in there and working with the herbs and working in the soil and hearing the water. I mean, that's my little retreat from the day, too.

SPEAKER_03 25:47

Good, good, good. So, yeah, we do microgreens, and I've got a little pond that just has some mosquito fish in it, but we take that water from the pond and water the microgreens with it, and that way the nutrients from the fish are going to feed the microgreens, which don't need a lot of food, anyways, and but it keeps the water clean. Yeah, you run it through a filter, but you know, you I don't want to have to put any chemicals or anything in the water, so that's it. We just rotate the water and you know, great take it down at a certain point, and that way when you put the hose water in it, it's not too much chlorine to hurt the fish, and it kind of keeps the water clear, and it's it all works out. So, well, this has been fantastic. I'm glad to catch you a little bit. I would love to you know get in deeper and and go back and look

Gardening As Self-Care And Reset

SPEAKER_03 26:42

at some of the topics we talked on before and hear more about your electroculture experience and yeah, some of the other things you do. But yeah, it was just really great to to to get back in here and and have that conversation. It seems like you know, I know behind the scenes you've you've gone through a lot in the last couple of years, and I think and I have a feeling I'm not that much of an empath, but it's because I don't want to be. And sometimes I I I take those shields off just a little bit so I can feel a little some stuff, and I feel like you're gonna be all right, like you're you're gonna come out of this better than you ever were.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 27:29

And I I'm looking forward to seeing that happen, and I'd love to be there to help any way I can.

SPEAKER_02 27:36

That would be amazing.

SPEAKER_03 27:37

Awesome. Well, Aaron, I always try to have our guests, if they have a a good thought, I know you do, leave our audience with with a central thought. Well, what do you think that would be today?

SPEAKER_02 27:53

Do something for yourself, put yourself first. I think we always hear put others first, but I think you need to put yourself first sometimes. Recharge. There's crazy energy that's going on in the universe right now that is just draining people. The Schumann residence has been off the charts, you know. So recharge, take that, whatever that takes. It's not selfish and it's very much needed.

SPEAKER_03 28:19

Absolutely, I think that's fantastic. And this is that end of the show opportunity. How does somebody get a hold of you if they're interested in any of your healing services that you offer, or maybe wanting to see some animals, or maybe help out and take one home?

SPEAKER_02 28:38

Absolutely. Yeah, so hit up me on my phone number. Texting is great, or on my website.

SPEAKER_03 28:44

Beautiful. What is one you want to give that out or do you have it?

SPEAKER_02 28:49

It's kind of long, it's just at the healing center. Phone number 208-749-0717 is probably the easiest.

SPEAKER_03 28:57

Beautiful. I'll find your website address and I'll put it in the show notes. Perfect. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Aaron. It was great to have you back, and I'm looking forward to this again.

SPEAKER_02 29:09

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_03 29:11

This has been another episode of the Healthy Living Podcast. I'm your host, Joe Grumbide. I want to thank all of our listeners for making this show possible, and we will see you next time.