What If Trust Is The Real Bottom Line? with Rob Carrol

Trust isn’t a soft concept, it’s the invisible system running everything from your closest relationships to the way a factory floor performs. Joe Grumbine sits down with leadership coach and continuous improvement specialist Rob Carroll to unpack why so many teams feel stuck even when they have smart people, good tools, and clear goals. When trust breaks, execution drags, costs climb, and organizations build layers of workarounds just to function.

Rob shares the unusual path that shaped his approach, from decades in manufacturing and Lean Six Sigma problem solving to time on stage as a singer, where connection and eye contact are everything. That same lesson shows up at work: if people don’t feel seen, they don’t feel safe, and improvement never sticks. We talk about rebuilding workplace trust through presence, deep listening, and a practical leadership mindset Rob calls “hanging an imaginary 10 over everyone’s forehead” so your actions match the value you say you hold.

You’ll also hear a powerful story from an aluminum mill where Rob suits up alongside frontline associates to solve a hazardous process no one wanted to touch, proving that servant leadership can unlock real operational excellence. Rob then explains his move toward human-centered continuous improvement, including a structured trust assessment that puts numbers to culture and connects trust to measurable gains like throughput, quality, and cost reduction. If you care about leadership development, employee engagement, and healthier relationships at work and at home, this conversation will stick with you. Subscribe, share this with a leader who needs it, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.

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SPEAKER_01 0:02

Well, hello, and welcome to the Healthy Living Podcast. I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, and I've got a very special guest today. His name is Rob Carroll. And Rob came to

Welcome And Why Go Deeper

SPEAKER_01 0:13

me from an interview I did with Scott Vackey and his book, and the two of them have a lot in common. Rob and I spent some time talking about his coaching business or and the work that he does. And we just we seem like we have a lot in common, the way we look at the world and life. And we were just talking uh before the interview, and you know, Rob, your your your words were there's a lot of chatter going on and and a lot of a lot of distractions happening right now everywhere you look. And it's maybe it's time to have a good deep conversation. So welcome to the show. I'm looking forward to this.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

That's good. Thank you, Joe. I really appreciate your time today, and uh I've been looking forward to, like you said, our conversation today. Uh, we mentioned together, right? There's there's a lot of chatter, there's a lot of noise, there's a lot of people talking today. Right. I I have a feeling that your audience and I know my clients are hungry for a deeper conversation. So thank you for making this a conversation between you and I. And I'm looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Agreed. Yeah, you know, this this podcast is kind of a labor of love. You know, we talked a little bit about, you know, my health experience and all this crazy stuff, but there's a lot of people out there of all ages that are seeking to get better, to be healthy. And and we were talking about it, you know, mind, body, spirit, emotion, all of those elements of the human being have to be in some kind of harmony for there to be health. And so we talk about all these different little points of view. And you came to me from a common friend, I think you know him better than I do, but Scott had just recently done an interview, and and his his book. I one of the few people I went out and bought his book, and I've been reading it, and and it's a very interesting book, but he recommended you to talk to me. And we started, we've been talking a little bit, and so why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself? You have quite an interesting story, and I'd like to hear a little bit about it.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

Sure. Thanks, Joe, and I'm I'm happy to share it. So I would call myself an SME

Rob’s Unusual Path To Purpose

SPEAKER_00 2:35

or a subject matter expert. That's where my career started. So I've been a continuous improvement manufacturing specialist for 42 years. And so, with that discipline, right? It's an engineering background, mechanical, electrical engineering. So I've worked in manufacturing basically all my career through plastics, aluminum, circuit breakers, aerospace, food, food and beverage. I've had quite a diverse opportunity throughout my career. So when you when you think about going into manufacturing environments with a mindset of solving problems, it took me a lot of years, Joe, to understand. I I know my gifts, right? I understand my passions, but I struggled with how do I connect my gifts and passions to a purpose? Okay, right. So I knew my ultimate purpose was to elevate others, but I struggled for a lot of years, Joe, to understand. Well, how does this professional singer? So I studied under a New York Metropolitan Opera retiree who taught me how to support and breathing and and projection. And uh so I was amateur and professional singer for a while. So how does this how does this engineer?

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Go ahead. No, I was gonna say that's a broad spectrum. I I find that many guests have strengths that seem very unrelated, and yet as you look into it, sometimes you find that they kind of support each other a little bit. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

So I recently wrote a podcast on my website that I host on my pod, one of my, or not a podcast, excuse me, a blog. Okay. On my website, and I have three different pages for leadership development, and we'll talk a little bit more about that in a minute, Joe. But one of those was essentially the sound, the system, and the stage.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

So the system spoke to the continuous improvement methodology that I'll use the term that I preach to our clients, right? Every process has uh a methodology and a system to it. And if you apply that methodology, you can guide the client through problem solving. And I've become a specialist in that. The stage comes from my singing experience. Okay. And you're right. You would think, you know, so my mind where I was going earlier is what does this engineer, this eclectic mix of gifts and passions, how does all of that mix together to for a purpose, right? So the stage came from my singing and my love for I sang everything from memory. So I memorized all the lyrics, all the music, so that I could connect with the audience. Because I realized through music that if you lose eye contact with the audience, you lose that connection. And if you lose that connection, you lose the relationship. And so the influence of the music is tainted or it's weakened by the fact that you haven't connected with your audience. Interesting. For yes, for a long time, I didn't realize that, and that was building in my in my amateur and professional performance from a music standpoint. All right. So then, as part of an engineer in one of those companies that I was working with, I decided to have a side business full-time, along with a full-time engineer, all right, doing home theater and audio installation, design and installation. So that's where the sound from that blog came in, right? So I'm a very passionate and convicted about ultimate surround sound, home theater experience, and music. Nice. So I actually developed a business to install elaborate home theaters and housewide audio systems with clients. So during all of those years, probably from 1993 to 2010, Joe, I struggled with how does this eclectic mix of this singer, home theater designer, and installer, and this engineer, how does all of that matter? Right? Okay. And it wasn't until I realized that when I help people go home with problem solved and they can leave feeling better about their job than when they came in in the morning, I'm serving them. So that helped me realize that, hey, Rob, you can exploit your gifts in the service of others. And that's the magic, Joe. You know, from your business, that's the magic behind any business. How can I take my unique gifts and exploit those to fill a need to serve others with? So out of that premise or that foundation, I went into consulting for the past 12 years, actually specializing in that same continuous improvement world with various companies traveling all over the world and the country, mostly North America, but I've I've been out of the country as well. So I've been invited to, with all these 30-some years of experience to that point, how can you take your gray hair and your experience, Rob, and help these various companies with lean and and Six Sigma methodologies for continuous improvement? So that's kind of in a nutshell. I know that was a little bit windy, Joe. Maybe that was more than you bargained for.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

No, no, no. That's a lot. I've got I've got a lot of questions. So I I It's kind of the backdrop to my history. So fire away. So problem solving is something that seems to be lacking in today's culture. I people like to complain

What Problem Solving Looks Like Now

SPEAKER_01 8:51

about problems, they like to point problems out, they like to blame people for problems, but I don't see a lot of problem solving as mainstream. People out there, you know, it seemed like when I was a kid, people solved problems. Everybody knew how to fix things, everybody's dad was a backyard mechanic, everybody, you know, you didn't just replace things, you tinkered with them and you you made them work. I I think relationships tended to last longer. People worked on them, they they didn't just throw them away. You know, we have these disposable relationships anymore, you know. You don't like somebody, you just stop talking to them, and people walk away. And I'm like, what the heck? It seems like in the past, you know, I grew up in the 70s and things were very, very different at that time, but they were a lot more personally connected. We didn't have these little boxes that we stared at all day long. You you wanted to talk to somebody, you you went over their house and talked to them. If you had a beef with somebody, maybe you got in a little scrap and then you dusted each other off and went off and grabbed a soda. I mean, you know, you you you interacted with people and you solved problems. I don't see that so much today. So and yet I've always been considered myself a problem solver, right? An entrepreneur and maybe not nearly as successful as you in the financial side of things, but I've helped a lot of people in a lot of ways, and I find problem solving to be kind of a natural gift, I guess. Do you find that the problems that you're faced with with these companies, large companies, small companies? Do you find common threads to these problems? I mean, I know it's a really big, giant, broad question that covers a lot of ground, but you're a visionary and a lot of times you might see patterns in big things. I was wondering, is there something that keeps coming up in in all these problems that you run into?

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Yes, there is. You can you can tell by the smile on my face. I can, absolutely. Yeah, you hit a you hit a button, right? You hit a button, yeah, you hit a passion of mine. So let me go back about seven and a half, eight years ago. Okay. I started, I started realizing that in the consulting world, that a lot of the companies that I went in to help

Broken Trust Slows Everything Down

SPEAKER_00 11:29

them put systems in place, let's say management operating systems or solving deep problems that other people couldn't solve, and we followed the data to let the data paint a picture as to what was causing the problem. In many cases, Joe, the improvements that I was privileged to put in place didn't stick. Or let's say I quoted the client or the company, the consulting company I was working with, quoted the client, in 26 to 30 weeks, we can solve this problem for you. What I found is there was something broken in the organization, and I'm gonna I'm gonna get to that. But there was something underlying that was broken in their in their organization that kept them from executing in a timely fashion. And their costs skyrocketed. And here's here's what I uncovered. And it ties into a book, and and Scott actually hits on this in several places in his his book, uh Wake Up to Die Again.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Uh, which I I have finished, by the way, and is fabulous. This is not a hat tip to you.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

But definitely it's a good book.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

Yeah, no worries. So here's what I found that when trust is broken in an organization, execution is lengthened and cost increases. And that concept is echoed in a book by Stephen M. Covey, the grandson of Franklin Covey, that wrote uh Seven Habits of Highly Effective People.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

Stephen M., the grandson Covey wrote the book Speed of Trust. Wow. And that was finally a book that that echoed what my soul was feeling in these organizations that we would go in and execute or try to execute improvement. And I like to use the term they couldn't drink from a fire hose that we were given. Wow. Because the trust is so broken in the organization that there are so many circumventing systems, so many, so many bureaucracy systems to, because trust is broken, to follow up with the associates, and the associates didn't trust the leadership. That when we came in to help them as pilgrims, if you will, right, as opposed to experts, pilgrims meaning we we walked on a journey with them as opposed to tell them how they're broken and then exit, right? So we're walking the journey, but they didn't trust me largely because they didn't trust their own leadership. Wow. So I learned very quickly, Joe, how to overcome that uh objection, if you will, and build relationships fast, connect with people so that those barriers or walls of trust were brought down to the point where I could I could enter in the influence that would help them rebuild their their trust in their organization or trust in me to help them.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

Well, that's powerful. Why don't you tell me a little bit about that? Because that that seems like it it could translate to just about anything in life.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

It can. So here's here's what I know. Trust is an invisible force that undergirds all relationships.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

Agreed.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

So would would you agree? And I've asked this question to a lot of people, and I'll I'll pose it to you, Joe. Would you agree that without trust, there can be no relationship? 100%. Right? So when I'm when I'm connecting with someone, be it helping them solve problems or trying to understand what keeps them up at night or what gives them heartburn, those are things that I like to ask people, hey, what what keeps you up at night? You know what gives you heartburn? And when they share that and I'm present with them and I'm listening, right, and I'm understanding, I'm realizing that hey, I'm building influence with them, I'm connecting with them, and that's the beginning step of raising the level of trust between the two of us. Okay, so I do that now with everyone I meet. I I I try to be present, I try to what's the term I want to say? Seek first to understand before being understood. And there you go. Sounds like uh a familiar little prayer. Right, right. And so that begins to resonate with people, yeah. And that they start dropping their barriers to then allow me to probe a little deeper, coach from within, and ask them. Most people know what the solution to their problem is. They need a pilgrim to walk with them and journey with them to say, let's bring that out, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:23

So so we're what you get, you you start off at a place where you walk in to a situation, you're you meet with the people that you're trying to work with. The leadership is likely not present at that time because or maybe they are, I don't know. The people that you're trying to interface with have uh a reticence to talk to you because of where you came from. They don't know you, you know, this guy that they don't trust brought you in, so they think you're in cahoots or whatever, for whatever reason that keeps them from what is the thing that you how do you deliver it in a way that the wall just kind of drops and they go, Well, that first move, what is that? What's that play? Four-letter word, Joe.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

All right, and it has a heart shaped around it, all right, and it's universal across every

Love As A Leadership Practice

SPEAKER_00 17:26

culture, and I've I've worked in in many countries, and it's it's true, it's L-O-V-E. Nice. All right, so I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you why I say that. Okay. So we started out talking about trust, okay. But you have to do something to gain that trust, yeah. All right, and that's connecting and building a relationship where you desert you earn the right to be entrusted with their trust, if you will. Okay, so yeah, so here's what I mean by love love equals a choice of your and my will to serve and sacrifice for those we're privileged to influence. All right. So, what I do very simply is when I go into an organization, is I seek out who are the in who are the needy and who are the influential people that can move the needle in their organization, and I just love on them. I find ways to serve and sacrifice for them so that they realize that I'm for if you want to say hashtag for whoever, right? They start getting that real early that Rob is hashtag for them. Okay, and that that immediately starts breaking down barriers because it's the old adage, I don't care how much you know, yeah, until I know how much you care. I love it, right? I love it. So I just hang, I tell people, and I told a group, maybe we'll get into that conversation if it goes there today. If not, we'll have a follow-up.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Oh, yeah, yeah. I I suspect we'll we'll be at this a few times.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Okay, well, it's fine. So I spoke with a group of leaders today in British Columbia. I'm not gonna name the client, sure. They're in the aerospace industry, all right, and they're broken, and I had to tell them today that their trust is broken in their organization. Okay, and but they invited me to tell them, so it was it was amenable, right? And it was they were they were all ears.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

So I had to I had the opportunity to tell them about Rob's definition of love. It's a choice of our will to serve and sacrifice for those we're privileged to influence, and how that begins to build that rapport with with the people. And so they said, Yeah, we've seen that. I said, That's why I spend 80 to 90 percent of my time on the floor with your frontline associates that add value to your customer. Okay, they are the ones that change the form, fit, and function of the part to delight the customer's need, they're the people adding value from the perspective of the customer. So I'm gonna add value to them. So I told them today just hang an imaginary 10 over the forehead of everybody you you meet. Now, here's what I mean by that. If you have a scale of zero to 10, and we've all done this, we say, Oh, she's a 10, or he's a 10, or that's a 10, right? That's what I mean by that. All right. My daughter has a phrase 10 out of 10 would would agree, right? So I just hang, I just hang that imaginary 10 over their forehead so that I'm I have maximum value for them so that I give maximum value to them. Nice. If I valued them as a one or a two, do you think I'm gonna give them my all? Yeah, no, but if in my mind I can make the choice, I've already made that. I'm going to serve and I'm gonna sacrifice for these people or this person, and I are already hang an imaginary tan on their forehead. Now it pulls it out of me. Now my purpose is alive, it's living. I'm elevating others. You can see on my backdrop behind me, right? That that is my purpose statements, two words elevate others.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Wow, it sounds like a little love your neighbor as yourself. I like it.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Absolutely is, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

So when you when you are dealing with the leadership, it seems inevitable that you have to lay down a truth to them that maybe they don't want to hear, or maybe they do. How do you find that they generally respond when you tell them we got a breakdown of trust? People don't trust you. I mean, that's gotta be difficult for a leader of a company to handle, to believe, to accept, because you know, they built this company oftentimes from nothing. And at one point there was trust. And then at one point there wasn't. And maybe they didn't, maybe they weren't aware of it. Maybe they were aware of it and they brought you in to solve it. But how do how how do they normally respond if there's a normally at all?

SPEAKER_00 22:31

Well, there about there's a couple things that I do. So let me start with the people first, right? Because that's what matters, and then I'll go to the numbers. So I'll get geeky with you in a minute and tell you my numbers answer, but let me start with the people answer. Okay. So one of my traditional habits, Joe, is when I have we have these sessions periodically with the leadership to tell them the story about the journey. Okay. So they want to know how are we doing, right? How are we moving the needle? What are you what are you doing for us, right? So I look for opportunities where I can find the key floor individuals that I'm working with, and I put them on the platform in front of their leadership and let them tell the story. Okay. So here's why. My dad once taught me this. He said, son, if you win the children, you will win the parents.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

All right. So, and he's he's right. He was a pastor for 50 years. Learned a thing or two. He learned a thing or two, a recovering alcoholic. So he really he lived on the other side, if you will.

SPEAKER_02 23:34

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

And so he he wanted to really help people have a better purpose and a better life. So I said all that to say he knew that if he wanted to get more people to hear the truth, if he could win the children, the children would bring the parents. Okay. That was his premise. So I've bent that a little bit in the workplace in that if you're the if you're the top dog or you're the boss, nobody likes better than to hear that their peeps or their people are doing good and you're bragging on them and you're building them up to their leader. They eat that up. All right. So I don't have to tell the story about me. The people tell the story, right? Okay. So that's why I start early building release relationships with those people on the floor and those key influencers and win their hearts because I know they're going to win the the client leadership heart because I'm going to give them the opportunity to tell the story.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

I like that. I I've always evaluated people by their children. When I see a bright, well-behaved child, I go, Wow, your your parents are something special. You know, it doesn't always mean a problem child has bad parents, but a good child generally has good parents.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

I would agree. I would agree, Jeb. I've seen that in my life.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

In in all the years that you've been doing this, I'm sure that you have dozens and dozens of stories of of transformations, but is there a story that that really sticks out to you as where there was just this mess, and you walked in and you were able to jiggle a few wires, and you know, it's funny. There's the old story about the guy who got called in to fix the ship, and the you know, this gigantic engine wasn't working, and the the captain's like, you know, you gotta get my ship going. I can't, you know, I can't get going. The guy goes over there and he listens to it and taps on this thing, turns a screw, and the the thing goes starts working. And the the the the captain's oh, you got my ship working. That's wonderful. He goes, Yeah, that'll be ten thousand dollars. He's like, wait a minute, you just spent two minutes in here. He goes, Yeah, I spent 40 years learning where to listen and how to turn. I I I suspect you have some similar tricks up your sleeve. So I'd like to hear a story about a big mess that you came in and wiggled a few wires and and and how it all shook out.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

Sure. So I was living in Maryland on what they call the Eastern Shore. Okay. It's a peninsula of Delaware, Maryland, and Virginia. They call it the Delmarva Peninsula by marrying Delaware,

A Turnaround Story From The Mill

SPEAKER_00 26:30

Maryland, Virginia. Okay. It sticks down between the Chesapeake Bay and the Atlantic Ocean. All right. So I lived there for 25 years and worked for a circuit breaker manufacturer on the peninsula in Maryland. Sounds like a beautiful claw crab and oysters and rockfish. Yes. It was a fishing community. So I worked with that company for 25 years and I helped transfer. I'm not proud of this, but I did. My job required me to transfer operations to China and Mexico. Okay. Over the course of 15 years, we went from 3,600 people to 60. Whoa. And I was one of the last 60. Okay. So I decided, you know what, I've ridden this wave to the beach about as far as I'm going to ride it. I need to exit. So I put my finger down at Nashville, Tennessee, because I I it's a conservative state. It's a beautiful state in my mind. Uh, it was very close to my mother-in-law and close to my family compared to where we lived in Maryland. They live in Ohio and Kentucky. So we put our finger down at Nashville and drew a 150-mile radius. Okay. And I canvassed every job I could find in that 150-mile radius. Well, on the very western edge of that in central Tennessee, I found an aluminum manufacturer that needed a specialist subject matter expert such as me to come in and solve problems and save money. So they make aluminum and they roll aluminum into foil and transformer windings and lots of different applications of aluminum foil. All right. So they hired me as their master black belt, and they expected me personally to save at least a million dollars a year. And all the people that worked with me that I was responsible for were supposed to save a million dollars a year. Wow. So there was a lot of pressure. I was gonna say my no pressure. So about two and a half years into that five-year journey with that company, I was washing out. When I say washing out, I was not getting the results that I expected and I thought the client expected. Okay. All the while, and I didn't realize it then, but that organization, guess what? Trust was broken, right? And there were hidden things because of that trust that was broken that weren't revealed to me when they hired me, that they had people doing exactly what I was hired to do previously, and they fired them or put them back in their positions, and then they hired me for more money. Oh, geez. So there was some animosity that I didn't know was living under the surface, right? It took a while to come out. All right. So I was heart, I was heartbroken, Joe, when I learned that. It's like I'm washing out. I don't know that I'm going to be able to have the influence with this organization that I need to have. I was really scared. I was concerned that I was failing, right? Okay. So I remember walking around the outside of the east rolling mill. They had an east and a west rolling mill. And there's a sign there that's basically said, People are our purpose, right? That was a mantra that the company had. They said it, but they didn't live it. Okay. I was gonna say it doesn't sound like that was the case. That wasn't, right? But here's something that resonated with me, and I won't say it was an audible voice, but I can show you an X on the ground right now where that sign is, where I had this blinding glimpse of insight. And here was the premise. Rob, stop worrying so much about the results and just love the people. Oh, remember, remember my definition? Love is a choice of my will to serve and sacrifice for those I'm privileged to influence. Stop worrying about you getting the results because that focus is all on you. Yeah, start focusing on serving, which I was, but it was a mental thing that you talk about, Joe, mind, body, and spirit. Mentally, I was out of alignment with my own identity. I was worried about getting the results, worried about the savings. That was my it was almost a obsession at that point.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

Just love the people, and the people cut you off there, but that is fundamental to so many things. If you're if you're shooting, if you're golfing, if you're pitching, if you're whatever it is, if you're trying to project one thing from one place to the other, you have to look at the place you're trying to go to. And yet you have to kind of let that go in what you're doing, and and instead focus just on what's what's making it work, and and let go of that looking at that goal. It it seems counterproductive almost, but you got that you got that message that said go go this way.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

So the very thing you said, Joe, is what happened is is the very thing I obsessed over and wanted so badly fleeted. It eluded me, right? But by focusing on the people and serving them, they actually helped me get the results that I had longed for. It's it's almost like a I'm telling you, a light switch went off when when that blinding glimpse of insight. So here's where I've taken that now. That was pre-consulting 12 years ago. That was about 14 or 15 years ago. I learned that lesson. So when I went into consulting, that's what taught me just love the people from the start, just build the relationships, just forget about the results. Now, hear me out. I'm not negating the power. You have to run a business, you have to get results. Absolutely. But it's the it's the mental focus of what's your what's your course knob and what's your fine knob. I was choosing the wrong course knob. I should have been turning the knob of loving and serving the people. And you know what? They'll they'll help you get the results you're looking for. So here's what happened: I said, Rob, how can you just come in every day and add value to this aluminum company? Right. Forget about I got to save a million dollars. How do you just come in every day and look for someone you can add value to? Okay. So I started emphasizing that imaginary tan in everybody's forehead. I started building more intentional relationships with people, deeper connection. So I found the I found a project in that company that no one else would touch. Essentially, when they roll aluminum, there are tons of pressure between giant steel chrome-plated rolls that squeeze the aluminum down to half its thickness and doubles the length. All right. Well, that aluminum has to flow through those rolls a kerosene-based fatty acid, an animal acid, it's suspended in kerosene. All right. So actually, the rolls. Yes, a lubricant. The rolls never touch the dry aluminum, the rolls are touching the lubricant on the aluminum, if you will. Well, that fatty acid is a Department of Transportation hazardous material. Of course it is. It's flammable and it has it has solids that are fat that's basically animal fat, so it's very flammable. Okay. So the employees would have to go out and suit up, certain employees, suit up in this hazmat suit with with face shield, hot Tyvek suit, gloves, and take a take a giant stainless steel tanker that you would transport milk or other kosher products in. Okay. And they'd have to they'd have to dispense that into a stainless steel container. All right. Well, it would splash inevitably the hose, almost like a gasoline pump, right? It would slip out of their hands, it would splash. They hated it. Okay. So I said, hmm, Rob, how about you go suit up with them every time a tanker comes in and you just live a mile, you walk a mile in their shoes and figure out what's what's hurting them, right? What's giving them what's giving them heartburn, right? Sure, absolutely. So that's what I did. I said, every time a tanker comes in, you call me ahead of time, let me know, and I'm gonna suit up with you. All right. So I would just watch, I would stand back in what I call the circle, and I or I would get on the platform and actually say, Let me try that. And I would work with them side by side, the pilgrim concept, the journey with them. Well, guess what? They realized by me doing that that Rob cares about us. Yeah, I don't care how much you know till I know how much you care.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

So they began feeling that, not just hearing it from my lips, they they saw it, they felt it in that connection because I was willing to get in their shoes and walk a mile with them next to them. And so, guess what? We solved that problem that no one else even wanted to touch. And we ended up, it was a pretty simple solution. We ended up just buying it in the 550-liter stainless totes instead of a giant tank. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 36:23

Problem solved, and there you go, just put it where it needs to go.

SPEAKER_00 36:27

Exactly, exactly. So, guess what happened, Joe? The word spread that hey, if nobody will help you with something, call Rob, he'll help you. Oh, interesting. So then they started sending me all over. They had a mine in Jamaica where the bauxite is mined that that turns into alumina crystals. Okay. Then they sent me to the smelter where they melt those alumina crystals into molten prime aluminum, and then they sent me to all the rolling mills. They sent me to Gramercy, Illinois, or Louisiana, where they where they precipitated the alumina crystals out of the bauxite, and I solved problems all over the the world, literally, for that organization because I cared. Simply that.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

And you you you basically did it the same way. You jumped into where the problem was and and went with the people observing and and looking for ways to solve it. They embraced you because you were down in there in the trenches with them. It's interesting. Many years ago, I was a commercial and industrial painter, and I was the white guy that worked with a whole lot of Mexicans that didn't speak a lot of English, but I took the effort to learn enough Spanish that I would communicate with them, and I would always take the hardest thing to do and do it. And whatever it was, if there was a spot way up in the corner of a of a uh of the rafters that had to be cleaned and scraped, I I would go up there and do the hardest thing. And I never had a problem with anybody listening to me because I whatever it was, they never had to do the hardest thing. I would always do it. In fact, sometimes they would even actually offer to do the hardest thing so that I wouldn't have to, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

But it's uh you know what? Go ahead. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

No, I was gonna say just being in the trenches, I always thought was the best way to connect. And it translates into leadership, but really it's about teamwork, it's about making something happen that you need to happen, and you got a bunch of people that initially didn't trust me. I was the I was the one white guy that you know read all the blueprints and told everybody what to do. So initially, everybody was like, Well, you know, that guy's a problem until they work with me, and then all of a sudden it wasn't a problem anymore. We we had a good team. Well, good.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

So you live you've lived exactly the message that I'm it's pretty simple, Joe. It's not easy, it's not easy, but it's simple, it's not a complex concept.

SPEAKER_01 39:12

I tell people all the time the answers to life are so simple, they're nothing to do with easy, but they are so simple. And and you know, it's it's funny. I the this show oftentimes turns into a little twist of prayer, but you know, at the end of the day, no matter what your concept of a of a higher power is, it generally has to do with love. And it all boils down to that, just be loving. That was my one rule of my family was be loving. And if you weren't being loving, then we probably had a problem, but it always boiled down to that, like just be loving, and it's like, oh yeah, how simple. Yeah, it's simple, hardest six to deal sometimes, but it's simple as heck.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

It is so can I can I tell you a little bit about my most recent journey? Please. So I was so here's one of my favorite quotes boldness is best expressed through the tempered flames of brokenness. Let me repeat that for your audience. Um so boldness is best expressed through the tempered flames of brokenness.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

I know exactly what you mean.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

Here's what I know pain plus clarity equals conviction. Agreed. Hence, that's what I mean by the word boldness, right? So I have felt enough pain, including that that blinding glimpse of insight that hey Rob, you need to change your perspective from getting results to loving the people. Right. And I've stumbled enough times that I've I've had some pain financially, pain physically, almost died with COVID, right? A lot of things that we can talk about in another podcast. But that

From Technical To Human-Centered Coaching

SPEAKER_00 41:09

understanding and clarity of where's my purpose, how am I focusing it, right? And it's all around maximizing trust and elevating others. Uh, in January, I launched a new business called Meridian Transformation Coaching. Wow. And it's a it's an expansion to away from technical continuous improvement to human-centered continuous improvement. Wow. Where I'm focusing with executives and leaders on helping them, coaching them through these principles to maximize trust and maximize influence.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

It almost seems like this new business is going to do more of the things that the old business did, but better.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

Well, it can be. So you asked me now. I'm gonna I'm gonna go back to a question you asked me earlier, and I said I'm gonna start with the human side, and then I'll get the geeky, geeky number side. So leadership always wants to see a picture. What does the data tell you? Right. Right? So I have come up with a way to put a number to trust. Okay. All right. So remember when I opened up early, I said trust is the invisible force that undergirds relationships. Right. I haven't found someone yet that does coaching or the continuous improvement world that I've come out of that's been able to put a number to trust. Well, I've yeah, I've done that.

SPEAKER_01 42:43

I've never heard of that either. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:45

So I've created a tool I call the trusted assessment. Okay. And it's a series of 32 or excuse me, 35 categories, over 175 questions I can ask anyone in the organization, and based on their scoring of a of a zero to five, I can put a Likert score to each of those questions, and I can come away with a numeric value

Putting A Number On Trust

SPEAKER_00 43:12

in 35 different categories that basically tell me the prowess of the trust and influence in the organization.

SPEAKER_01 43:20

Wow. That's uh it it almost sounds like uh, you know, the personality test where you can kind of learn about the type of category of person you are. It seems like you've distilled that into the trust world.

SPEAKER_00 43:37

So I've distilled that to a pyramid that builds those 35 blocks, those building blocks, if you want, if you will. And there they are things like influence and vision and the the operating system inside the organization and several different things that basically lead to how well does the leadership influence their people and cast vision. That the people will believe in. How do they bolster belief in the organization over those 175 questions? And I can come away with a red, green, yellow, conditionally formatted pyramid that will show the organization not only a zero to a hundred scale, a hundred meaning maximum trust, zero meaning minimum, and everything in between. I not only show them that, but I can show them in 35 different categories where their individual scores are with those particular areas. And then what I do with that is I say, now, now that you know that trust is broken, let's go down that path. Okay. Trust is very bad in your organization or minimal, right? That means your execution time is going to be lengthened and your costs are going to go up. And here's why. And I give them evidence from case studies. Yeah. And there are there are a lot out there, and I've done the research. Yeah. So then I've put very conservative numbers to say you can expect something like a 15 to 20% increase in throughput by improving your front line and your middle, your middle manager's leadership prowess. You can see a 20 to 25% boost in quality. You can see an 18 to 32% increase in in cost reduction in your organization. And all of a sudden, that starts waking up the leadership to start putting dollar signs around a number that I've applied to their trust in the organization. Now I have their interest because I've just married trust with their business bottom line. It makes sense, though. It makes perfect sense. So then I say, okay, do I have your interest? Yes or no? And they usually say yes. And everybody says yes, yeah. Right. Because you're talking dollars, right? Business. I don't care what you make, you really make money, right? But you're exploiting gifts in the service of others to make a profit to help people have a gainful employment. So then I say, okay, now let me help you create a journey where we'll walk together. I'm the pilgrim again, right? I'm gonna walk with you. Right. So let's take your key leaders and let's give them what I what's called a blind spot assessment. Right. So that blind spot assessment is like a disc personality profile for leaders, and there are eight different types, but it helps each type realize what their natural blind spot is that they're overlooking in their leadership style. So it's not just here's how you're compatible as a connector with a problem solver type personality. I'm now saying here's your likely blind spots that you're overlooking in your leadership. And from that blind spot assessment, I've created custom roadmaps for each of those eight that that customize the guidance of those leaders through what they need to bolster their blind spot.

SPEAKER_01 47:08

Wow. You know, I suspected this was going to happen. We're gonna run low on time before we run anywhere near out of topic, and I definitely want to pursue some of this stuff a whole lot more. I this I I I really like your approach. I I've got a million things that I would want to share, but we're we're really kind of tripping over the the the finish line here. Sure. I have two questions still. One with this new business, you're one person, and the general progression of most service type businesses is some kind of growth. What's what's your plan in the future?

SPEAKER_00 48:01

So I have offered to partner with the existing consulting firm that I'm with. Okay, and I'd rather not reveal that at this particular one, but we'll in a future podcast. But I'm still working with a continuous improvement consulting firm. Okay, but they have bought into the meridian transformation coaching journey.

SPEAKER_01 48:23

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 48:24

And I'm I'm planning to partner with them to create a whole new work stream for human-centered continuous improvement. So imagine imagine we not only now go in to do technical problem solving and manufacturing and lean manufacturing, Six Sigma continuous improvement concepts, but we also now offer this human-centered leadership and executive leadership development, which sustain makes the improvements sustainable and undergirds the improvements with better leadership, raising the trust in the organization, maximizing influence. So my first approach is hey, don't try to do this solo. Join with someone that already has success in the consulting world that wants to morph their business to add this human-centered continuous improvement methodology. And so we're partnering to do that.

SPEAKER_01 49:21

Oh, that's fantastic. That seems a whole lot easier than starting from scratch, training people. I love it. I love it. Well, I like the way you think. We have a lot in common. And again, I think we've barely scratched the surface, which I kind of figured was going to be the case. I always like to sort of wrap an interview with you. Do you have a thought, a parting thought for our listeners? You've got you've said so many powerful things that like, well, he's already given us all these wonderful, you know, bits of wisdom. But is there one thought you'd like to leave our listeners with?

SPEAKER_00 50:09

Well, I would have to come back to something we started with, Joe, at this point. And in a future podcast, maybe I can expound on this a little more with some other fingers. But it really comes down to I don't care if it's a child, a sibling, a friend, a coworker, a boss, the the president of the United States, or the janitor. Okay. There can be no relationship without trust. And I am convinced that that trust is the force that's sometimes intangible, but it manifests itself in the expression of influence that we have over other individuals to talk to take a journey with us. So my encouragement to your listeners would be do everything you can to get rid of anything in your life that that robs that care that trust with

Trust Rules Every Relationship

SPEAKER_00 51:10

others and bolster the positive things that reinforce trust with others because there can be no relationship without trust.

SPEAKER_01 51:19

I love that. And I never have put it together the way you explained it, although in the last couple of years I literally rebuilt my whole relationship world. You know, when you get diagnosed with cancer, all of a sudden everything changes and all your priorities change. And I got this giant wake-up call, and I got rid of 95% of the relationships in my life because they were toxic or not serving me. And I don't mean that in a selfish way, I just mean that in a in a way that was was real, you know. And I I I came to a place where I had to live in a world of truth, and otherwise I was gonna die. And so all of a sudden you start getting really honest about relationships, and you realize many of them weren't what they appeared to be, and I I didn't terminate them so much as I put them on the side and created a place for new ones to come in and take their place, and they did in a beautiful way. And after talking to you and listening about this idea of trust and love, I've always considered love and trust to be very closely tied together, but I never really looked at the importance of trust in these relationships as really what it is, and it's paramount. And I think that's the key to all these relationships that I have today that I didn't have before is that they're built on trust, straight up. And that it's that's that's that's a powerful lesson. I'm gonna spend some time sitting with that for a bit. I I I appreciate this. Well, Rob, I like I said, we have so much more to talk about. I look forward to continuing this. I want to finish Scott's book and have another conversation with you and see where we want to jump into. But I'm really impressed and I deeply respect the work that you're doing. I think you in so many ways make the world a better place. So, and I don't say that to very many people. I I I I I'm very impressed with what you do, and you know, I don't care so much about the companies, but if you can help a person to better themselves, it spreads and you're making the world better.

SPEAKER_00 54:04

It sure does. Thank you so much, Joe. It's been an honor and a privilege to talk with you in this conversation, right? We weren't just it wasn't a bunch of noise or talk, right? It was a conversation.

SPEAKER_01 54:14

No, no, we got deep. I love it, I love it. This is fantastic, and like I said, I I got a million other little little doors that you know we have a lot in common, let's just say that. And I I I I'd like I very seldom meet a person that I feel like we have some real fundamental things in common, and so I'd like to explore that. So, well, Rob, thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure. A half an hour turned into almost an hour, and it makes me happy that it did. So I just want to thank you again for joining us today.

SPEAKER_00 54:51

Thank you, Joe. My privilege. I look forward to our next session together.

SPEAKER_01 54:56

Excellent. Well, this has been another episode of the Healthy Living Podcast. I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, and I really want to thank our listeners for making this show possible, and we will see you next time.