Healthy Living by Willow Creek Springs
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Healthy Living by Willow Creek Springs
Scans, Choices, And Taking Charge with Dr Robert Hoffman
A “good scan” can feel like a finish line, but we dig into why it’s often just the start of smarter decisions. Joe walks through a favorable MRI, an attentive ENT visit, and the practical next move: get a CT to clarify what’s scar, what’s necrosis, and what—if anything—still needs attention. Along the way, we unpack the real limits of imaging, the differences between diagnostic radiation and therapeutic doses, and how to frame each test around a specific question so you get answers you can act on.
We also talk through the fork in the road if a suspicious area shows up. Needle biopsy can miss or confuse; open surgery can traumatize tissue and may not eliminate microscopic disease. That’s why we map out a measured path: layer CT for anatomy and consider Japan’s methionine PET for metabolic clarity before committing to invasive steps. Joe shares how coming prepared—records, images, drug history, and a clear timeline—transforms the clinical conversation. When you arrive with your binder and your goals, your care team can actually meet you where you are.
Beyond one case, we shine a light on a bolder vision: a dedicated hospital model for stage four patients, led by experts who combine advanced imaging, radiology, and supportive therapies instead of defaulting to “nothing left” and hospice. Many people still have options if we move with focus and creativity. That spirit is alive in our weekly support group where patients compare notes, trade resources, and help each other find second opinions and better questions to bring to their doctors.
If you’re navigating cancer or supporting someone who is, this conversation offers a roadmap: prepare, layer your data, pace your decisions, and keep your agency. Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs a lift, and leave a review with the one question you’re planning to ask your doctor next.
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Well, hello, and welcome back to the Healthy Living Podcast. I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, and I'm excited today we have back in the studio Dr. Robert Hoffman. Here I am. Welcome back. It's always great to have you here. Thank you, Joe. It seems great to be here. Seems like it's been a long time since we've done a show, and uh, you know, so much happens. Like, you know, you live in a really fast-paced world, and um my world is like a roller coaster. I never know what's coming my way, but um a lot water keeps rolling under the bridge. It's all good stuff though, right? You bet. So I uh I had a doctor appointment with a new doctor today, and um Dr. Song had uh ordered an MRI, which I brought over to you. You saw the results, and it's seemed pretty favorable. I would say very favorable. Yeah, yeah. And you know, the the thing that's funny about all these scans are that they don't all know what they're looking at. You know, they tell certain things, they say, oh well, you have a mass, or you have some activity, or you this is solid, or this is liquid, or you know, there's something happening here, but they really don't tell you definitively what's happening, right? I mean, they they the they have to be interpreted, and so generally what happens is you'll get a a a disk or or some kind of a file where you can see the actual scan. And if you know what you're looking at, it's kind of cool. But if you don't, it looks like blobs of things, lights.
SPEAKER_00:Even if you know what you're looking at, every every piece of information, whether it's a scan or a test, has a limit.
SPEAKER_01:Right, exactly. And I think maybe one of the most important limits is the size, like it can only see a thing if it's big enough to be seen. And you know, cancer starts out as a single cell.
SPEAKER_00:One cell.
SPEAKER_01:One cell, and one cell turns into two, turns into four, and before you know it, you got 400,000. And or a few billion, or a few billion, exactly. And and and that happens a lot faster than you can imagine. You know, cancer cells are are by their nature um fast replicating. That's part of their their genetic makeup, is to grow fast.
SPEAKER_00:And and some of them are not so fast, but they just keep doing it. Right. Or they they're not so fast and they don't keep doing it, but they spread. There's a whole lot of ways for the cancer to hurt you.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And and it's all designed for the cancer to live, and it's really just a side effect of the cancer living, is that it eats you up.
SPEAKER_00:Well, the cancer is a parasite, right? It it um it used to be you, right, uh, and then it kind of it isn't you anymore, kind of. It's semi you, and then it be it it becomes a a parasite, yeah. Right. It's living off you, yeah, and and it's so stupid it doesn't know when to stop. Exactly. It it it keeps going until it kills you, and it kills itself as well. Well, it sometimes you can't live long enough for the cancer to kill you, but it sure all happens too much.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly, exactly. So that's really one of my biggest problems with all these scans is that um, you know, cancer starts out so small that nothing can see it. And you know, there's more and more tests coming out, blood tests and different types of um tests that that that recognize anomalies and things that are likely to be cancer. I think there's likely a combination of things that's always your best bet, but they don't tell you that.
SPEAKER_00:You know, the doctors don't tell you over they they don't think in that direction very well. Yeah. Um you know uh you need a lot of tests, you need a lot of scans, including multiple types of scans to really know what's going on. Right. And um you just go and get them.
SPEAKER_01:And you know, everything seems to be a double-edged sword because like some of the scans are you know radioactive, so they're injected.
SPEAKER_00:It's not enough, Joe. I you know, you go up to 30,000 feet in a plane, you probably get more. Okay, all right. Uh and we know a little bit, a little bit of radioactivity uh is probably an immunostimulant. Okay, excuse me, just for five two seconds, please. Yeah, yeah, no problem. So I wouldn't necessarily say the same about having forty sessions of radiation.
SPEAKER_01:Right, I agree.
SPEAKER_00:We know that that's a different story. Right. Um But I I I don't worry about the scans, I don't worry about the contrast agents. I want good info. Okay. But you're gonna get you're probably gonna get soon or as soon as you want, the ultimate cancer scan, a MetPed.
SPEAKER_01:Right, right. In Japan. Well, that's where I'm that's where I'm headed. So um Dr. Sol.
SPEAKER_00:Tell me what the doctor said uh the ENT doc said about this current scan.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was really kind of neat. Um, this is a new clinic. Um, the the clinic that I went to, they've got multiple branches. This is a brand new branch that was just opened up, I guess. And this is a doctor I've never seen before. Uh, but it was through the same clinic where the guy that did my biopsy um back in October of last year did it. So they had all my records. Um I got the MRI and I got it, went back there and got a disc and brought it in along with um, you know, the the report. And it was interesting because when I first checked in, you know, the nurse comes in and goes over your paperwork and and asks questions. And I I come in with this whole stack of information and a disc, and she starts asking me questions, and I'm like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. I got all the answers and and then more. And she's like, whoa, whoa, you don't need me here. She goes, You're you're completely prepared. Doctor's gonna be real happy to talk to you. Uh like they're not used to people walking in having an idea of what they're doing, and that becomes more and more apparent to me as I walk in, you know, with I don't want to waste this doctor's time. I don't know how much time I'm gonna get. So I want to have everything he might need so that I can, you know, get the most out of the experience. So he shows up, and you know, I had to kind of tell him the whole story because he didn't know me, and all he had was my records from you know the biopsy, which he didn't probably read. Well, I I think he did actually. I like this guy. I like this guy, yeah. Yeah, I'm I'm actually pretty impressed. So the yeah, the first thing I did, he's also an Asian guy. I don't know what denomination, but what's his name? And I'll tell you. Sun is his last name. Fong Sun, S-U-N.
SPEAKER_00:Sung. Whoa, that's a hard one. It could be a Chinese or or a Korean.
SPEAKER_01:That's a I was thinking one of the two. He's kind of tall.
SPEAKER_00:He's definitely one of the two, it's not Japanese, yeah. No, Song with a U. Yeah. Um like Sun, yeah, yeah. Maybe Korean. All right, 60 Korean, 40 Chinese.
SPEAKER_01:All right. Well, I I am okay with either one of those. Um, the thing that I liked about him was he wasn't, he he was probably a little bit younger than me, but very attentive. He he I showed first thing I did is I showed him a picture. I said, This was me in April. And he looked back, he's like, whoa. And then he looked at me, he's like, what side was that on? He I said, You gotta ask. I said, That's good, I like that. And and so I, you know, I pointed right to where it was at, and he's looking at that, and he's looking at the picture, and then he read the he read the report of the scan, and um I told him, you know, sort of the a history of what had happened, where I went to UCI, and then that we proposed the neo-adjuvant chemo solution. I told him the three drugs. Um, I told him that they, you know, it shrunk it down and they wouldn't go further. Um, they wanted to hit me with the radiation. When I said that, he kind of crinkled his eyes a little bit, like, really, like, why would you know? But then he goes, Well, that's their standard. They go, that's the box that they operate in.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, at least that's their guideline.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And and and he understood why they would be the way they were, but he didn't necessarily agree with it. So an ENT is kind of an interesting doctor because he's not just a cancer doctor, he does ear, nose, and throat, all different he sees a lot of head and neck cancer, my guess. Sure. Oh, absolutely, but he's not exclusive, so he's not stuck in that that standard of care bubble because he does all sorts of stuck in the guideline, right? Absolutely. So I I tell him now I tell him about Dr. Song. And I you tell Dr. Sung about Dr. Song. I did. I tell Dr. Sung about Dr. Song.
SPEAKER_00:And um yeah, but after you sing your song, you know.
SPEAKER_01:But he was very impressed with Dr. Song. He says, Wow, that's that's a pretty uh pretty incredible doctor. I says, Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:This is the first time he heard about him.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, yeah. He didn't, and and I told him he's a 80-year-old doctor working out of uh uh San Diego. I told him he was actually um one of the doctors that discovered one of the drugs I was taking. So he was like, okay, this guy's really, you know, got us chops. And uh he was he was impressed with his willingness to um work outside of the the standard of care guidelines, and and that he, you know, he just said, I'm I'm I'm really impressed with this doctor. And so I said, Okay, well I like that. I go, I am too. And and so now we're getting, you know, through this. And I he says, well, after he looked at the the reports, he went and you know, he felt my neck, and uh then he he did take that camera and he ran it down my nose. And um he said it was clear. He said, Yeah, he's like, there's nothing there. And um he said, he said, look, look, based on what I'm seeing and what I feel, he says, you know, I can feel the mass that's there, but he said, your body just absorbed this giant thing. He goes, it's not done yet. He goes, it's likely to be necrotic tissue or scar tissue or both. And he says, you could be done right now. And I said, I know, but this is the critical part is we gotta know. Because if I'm not done, I can't let it sit there and grow.
SPEAKER_00:Well, Joe, you know, you know how how we think. We think you're never done.
SPEAKER_01:Right. Well, I I I I talked to him about my my course of treatment. I talked about you, I talked about my diet, I talked about um, you know, and what he said was, well, there's really, he said the first thing I would do is just get a CT scan. I told him about the MetPed in Japan, and he didn't know about it, but he listened. And I told him about it. I told him about the radioactive methionine, um, I told him about how there is one here in the States, but they only use it for the brain, and they don't have a whole body version of it. And I said, and he's listening to me. He's like, okay, he wasn't disagreeing with anything I had to say. He he says, I don't know about methionine and this reaction, but I'm I'm listening. And and he said, That's seems to be a good solution, but that's a long trip and it's a big thing. And I see he says, why don't we just order a CT scan here?
SPEAKER_00:I I think so, Joe. It can there's nothing to lose by having a CT scan, and he's willing to order it, I would go for it.
SPEAKER_01:Well, exactly. I go, you know, my insurance will cover it, and whatever you know, a little bit I gotta pay.
SPEAKER_00:We'll we'll get a little bit more information. I mean, just good and it's great that he's ordering it from you. You got the MRI, right? A lot of guys might have said that's enough already.
SPEAKER_01:Right. Well, and and he's he said, you know, he's listening to me. He says, You're really, you really did your work. He goes, he goes, I I'm impressed with you know you're how you're how you're thinking, how you're acting, you're you're taking control of your own your own health. And I says, Well, yeah, I want to live. You know, and and I don't know that that would happen if I just listened to the first doctor that that was directing me. And God forbid. Well, exactly. And so the first doctor wanted to do radiation right away. Well, the first doctor wanted to operate and then do oh, yeah, that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And well, anyways, so then he goes, Okay, well, there's I where my point of view, you came to me for a consultation to see what I have to say. He goes, from my point of view, there's two ways forward after the CT scan. So if we do the CT scan and we see nothing, well, then you're probably good.
SPEAKER_00:We can't assume that, but what what's that was his point of view?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. He says if we see something, sorry, then there's there's two approaches. He says, one approach is I can do a needle biopsy, and you know, we can we can try to get that where the spot is. And but he agreed with me that that's really a uh a weak approach. I said, you know, it it can likely cause problems if it does hit something, number one, and it's liable to not hit where it is and give us a false negative. So either way, I don't know that I like that idea.
SPEAKER_00:He says I don't either.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, he says the other way is we can go in and open it up and do a test while it's open and know for positive if it's got cancer or not. If it does have cancer, we can remove the whole thing and go from there.
SPEAKER_00:Well, Joe, that no matter how much they say they can remove the whole thing, they can't. That's what I told him, and definitely what I told him. And the residual cancer is there's a big risk that that surgery will stimulate it.
SPEAKER_01:I agree, and that's what I took.
SPEAKER_00:If CT shows something, we're gonna go, we're not gonna do anything, my recommendation, until we go to Japan and get a medpet. Agreed. Then we sit down, we sit down with Dr. Sato and Dr. Sao, yeah, and see what we're gonna do.
SPEAKER_01:I agree, I I'm right there with you. I I I listened to him and I I thought that from his point of view as a surgeon and as a guy who that's what he does. I think he gave me what he thought was the very best solution. And I I agreed that you know, based on what we're talking about, I I I liked his his thinking, and and we kind of parted ways.
SPEAKER_00:I don't really have another course of action with him until after Well, he you're gonna you're gonna take his C his prescribed CT scan, right?
SPEAKER_01:Well, no, I'm going to Dr. Song with his recommendation, and Dr. Song's gonna order the CT.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so Dr. Song sent you to that guy. The guy said, Let's do a CT. So I'm sure Dr. Song will order it.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. And Dr. Song has already alluded that that was possibly gonna be his next course of action, anyways.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So that's that Dr. Song just wanted to hear if he wanted to go in and do a biopsy or he was gonna think to do it.
SPEAKER_00:Well, he's also gonna want to hear he put the camera up your nose and found nothing.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, and and not only that, but that Dr. Sun said he was very, very happy and and impressed with my results. When I I told him about the drugs that I took, uh, you know, the chemo drugs and um the diet and all the things, and looking at my picture, uh looking at the biopsy uh report and and looking at me now, he was like, Whoa, you know, you're you're he said what he said was the problem with you is that we don't have any case studies that reflect what you did because people well you shouldn't I think maybe you can send them your paper.
SPEAKER_00:Here's the case.
SPEAKER_01:I am going to, and I but but you know, he doesn't have a uh uh a guideline that that's come of that yet. But I'm it's out of it's it's out of his yeah, world, it's out of his universe, exactly, and that was really what he said. He was like, you know, you're you're you took matters into your hands and you did what you needed to do, and you got the results you were looking for. And um, you know, I think that that's really uh an important message to all the listeners here is, you know, um when I walked in there and they were like surprised that that I was prepared, I think to myself, well, how would you go into a doctor and not be prepared? But then I think back to a year and a half ago when I first went to a doctor and I didn't know anything about what was going on. I wasn't prepared. I didn't know. I was there to try to figure it out. And you know, now that I've gotten some uh some information and and some guidance and um some direction and and and some purpose, it it's it's changed my whole dynamic. And now look at the conversation I have with the doctor. You know, so different from you know, well, I don't know, I think I want to do this or that, and they go, Well, we don't know. Here's our thing.
SPEAKER_00:And yeah, well, I mean, that's 99.9% of every pay, all the patients.
SPEAKER_01:They don't know you're right.
SPEAKER_00:And it uh they're not told to know, and they're told to just do what they're told.
SPEAKER_01:I I I couldn't agree more, and and you know, I think that's one of the big messages and in this conversation. And I I did another um interview with a woman yesterday, and she had she was a writer, and she she was a romance novel writer, but she got diagnosed with breast cancer um a couple of years ago, and she was talking about her experience with that, and I said, Well, you know, let's let's walk down that road together, and and I'll share with you, you know, some of the things I did. And it was interesting. Her, you know, the whole experience of getting diagnosed with cancer and then having to reckon with it, acknowledge it, decide to go and treat it, and then walk through all these different um obstacles or opportunities, depending on where you go, because you don't even know you spin the wheel of a doctor and you don't know who you're gonna get. And you know, hopefully you end up in a place like I did where I found my way to this some good treatment, but I didn't I didn't get put there initially, and the system didn't give it to me, you know. It was it was through uh research and and trial and error and meeting you and and the group and and and you know knocking on doors and and you know just going after it, that that ultimately we've we found something that I think is um you know making the difference here. So we had a good conversation, and I I I came up, you know, she ended up going down a little different route, but when I told her about the diet and I told her about, you know, um, you know, how I'm going after my long-term treatment and um you know how important just taking care of your body is in the right ways, you know, she was like, Oh, I want to learn more, so I'm gonna maybe bring her in.
SPEAKER_00:Taking charge, taking charge. It's all about taking charge of your own destiny. So much is you know you let the oncologists take over. You know, you're just another one little guy in the waiting room, next, next, next, next. Um it's and he's gonna get paid whether you respond to the chemo or don't respond, he gets the same money, um, no incentive. And they're probably nice people, and you know they wish you well, but they're not bought into you.
SPEAKER_01:No, no, they don't have an object.
SPEAKER_00:I don't know if he buys into every patient. He's certainly bought into you. It certainly has.
SPEAKER_01:I I couldn't agree more. I I I can tell when we have a conversation and when he looks at my blood work, and you know, every time that we make some progress, I I see him light up. I I like we're winning, you know. Not I'm winning, but we're winning. Like he's and it's we, yes, not you, it's we. I agree, and I I I feel that, you know, when I go into him, and I I got the sense that this new doctor would be like that, but he's not a doctor that would be for long care long-term treatment, anyways. He would be a stepping stone, you know, on in the pro in the program. So I I I feel really good. I'm I'm looking forward to uh I'm gonna talk to Dr. Song tomorrow and share with him all of this and hopefully uh have him order that CT scan and uh then I'll talk to Shahiro and and start to do the preliminary um figuring out what I need to look at, look for um you know, to schedule this Japan trip. And uh I'm looking forward to it. So last week you you made a trip to Japan.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, I the main thing I wanted to meet with Dr. Sato, and I told him about my dream about a hospital for stage four cancer patients.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And we discussed, and he ended up saying, I'm gonna build it.
SPEAKER_01:I love it. I love it. And like you said before, there's no such thing. Like there's no no such thing.
SPEAKER_00:Uh the big cancer centers basically boot you out once you're stage three. They certainly don't want you around with you know, some exceptions, but stage four, go to you know, it's basically uh you come in, let's just say a medical oncology, you come in, you get first line, you fail first line, and this may take a few years, you fail second line, and then you're offered a clinical trial, and you take it, and almost all of them fail, and then you're sent to hospice.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:That's that's it. It's almost like you know, playing Monopoly, how you go around the board.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And um the the the sta and and Dr. Sado in his book says stage four don't give up, and I say that too. Right there. I mean, you can't take somebody off the deathbed, but there's a heck of a lot of stage four that still can have a chance. Let's put it there. So Dr. Sato's clinic, it it occupies two or three buildings and a couple of three floors. It's very uh super equipped for imaging and as well as uh therapeutic radiology. So to convert that into a hospital, basically you can build a couple of floors or another building on the campus that has beds. Right. And I don't think we need a surgical suite because stage four is usually not treated by surgery. Right. It can be sent to a collaborating hospital. But the point is they can the stage four patient can be admitted and we can do a lot of things with them. And in Japan, the culture is uh even the chemo would not be in the doctor's office, it would be in the hospital. Okay. And a lot of people are hospitalized for the chemo session overnight or whatever. It's very different. Okay. And it's all covered by national health insurance, uh, insurance for everybody, which in this country is considered uh uh the worst thing that ever happened. Right.
SPEAKER_01:Um so um it's the worst thing that ever happened unless you need it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So that was the main point. He's agreed to do it, and I'm sure he's planning it out. Um that's exciting. And you've been working with Dr. Patient to go and to stay. Yes, and not in hospice where they want to and generally what they do in hospice is they give you enough drugs to die. Right. Enough sedatives or uh narcotics or whatever. They give you the high dose of that stuff, get you into a coma, and and then you you know you're gone in another few hours. That's the main goal of the hospice. Drug you up and take you out of the box. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Palliative care isn't about getting you well, it's just about keeping you comfortable.
SPEAKER_00:No, it's about just facilitating the dying process. Agreed. And um it isn't, you know, for some people, yeah, I get it. It's like if you don't have whatever, but I think there's a very I can't tell you the percentage, I don't know, but I know there's a lot of people that could be helped that are staying for. If only people would try to help them.
SPEAKER_01:I agree. And you know, if you have somebody who wants to live and they're willing to do what it takes to live, then it it makes no sense to me why we don't have a a a facility and and and because there's no money in it, right?
SPEAKER_00:There's no incentive in it, the doctors are not trained to treat stage four, they're just told send them off the hospice. Right. Uh in San Diego, the McDonald's wife uh gave huge money for a fantastic, beautiful hospice. A nice place to spend your final couple days. Okay. Um you know, that's not the way I look at things. And um so I I hope the stage four hospital, Dr. Sado's new hospital. I hope it'll be an example to the world. Uh I doubt it'll catch on very fast, but at least among us, we've got a place.
SPEAKER_01:Agreed. And you know, that's what what that's what we're all here is looking to make change and and you know, be that change we want to see out there. And so, you know, you have to get out of the way.
SPEAKER_00:You're just one person, I'm just one person. Right. Help out, and um, if it doesn't catch on, we just do it ourselves.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly, exactly. Well, I I want to shed a little light again on our Sunday group, um, Sunday at four o'clock. I I can't feel strong stronger about the importance of people sharing their experience. We've we've had a lot of new people poking their heads in in the last few weeks, and you know, I think it's just really important if anybody that's listening um is either been diagnosed with cancer, is recovering from cancer, knows somebody who is. Um all the details covers everybody in the world. Exactly. All the details are in the show notes on the show, and you know, you're welcome. Just click that link.
SPEAKER_00:It's recorded too, and everybody's gets a free recording.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. So, and if you're interested, I'm easy to reach. I'm I'm more than glad to uh to to give you any additional information. But you know, this group is is incredible. It's made up of people from around the world that are alive, and uh many of them would maybe not be alive had they not chosen some of the treatments, the diet, the the things that we're doing that we're sharing. Um, I think there's a huge amount of hope that gets shared. Um, there's a lot of inspiration when you see one person that's been willing to do the hard work, and here he is. He's here four years later after they told him he wasn't gonna be. Um, and he's out there helping other people find these answers. So um, and there's a dozens of people that that that fit that bill. And um, of course, Dr. Hoffman's here um with his wisdom and knowledge, just uh guiding along and answering questions and asking a lot of questions. You ask, I think, more questions than anybody, and I think that's that's how we find out these answers.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that that's uh that's for sure. And the support the patients give each other on that Zoom group, it's incredible.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I'm I'm proud and pleased to be a part of it, and um me too. I talk about it uh as one of the primary features of treatment is you know, getting a community around you and finding um finding answers. You know, we've had a lot of people that you know, this group is literally scattered across the country and across the world, so it's not like we have a necessarily a resource for everybody, no matter where they are, but we can show you how to find what you're looking for. And I think that when somebody comes in and they say, Well, my doctor told me this, and they are approaching it as well, that's where I am, that there's not another, there's nothing more. And almost immediately one of our group members will, you know, toss in an alternative um solution, or starts asking more questions, and the person realizes that, oh, well, maybe I need to ask this doctor to do a thing for me, or maybe I need to find another doctor, or both. And you know, all those things are legitimate, and uh, you know, again, the patient needs to be the advocate. I think that's one of the primary messages here.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. The patient has to be in charge, Robert.
SPEAKER_01:It's always a pleasure to spend time with you.
SPEAKER_00:You uh you're you're you're an example for the world.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and uh as are you. So we're we make a great team. I love working with you. Me too. I'm looking forward to uh the next step. I'm looking forward to finding out what's uh what's inside of my neck.
SPEAKER_00:Well, we're gonna get the CT scan, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I think one way or another we should plan Japan. I think you're right. I think you're right. So all right. Well, we will uh continue this saga, and um, I'm looking forward to uh talking to you again on Sunday. Me too. Excellent. Thanks for having me, Joe. Oh, it's always a pleasure. Me too. Well, this has been another episode of the Healthy Living Podcast. I'm your host, Joe Grumbine. I want to thank you, Dr. Hoffman, for joining us. And I thank you for having me. Thank the listeners for making the show possible, and we will see you next time. We sure will.
