Healthy Living by Willow Creek Springs
A podcast about practices to promote healthy lives featuring experts, businesses, and clients: we gather to share our stories about success, failure, exploration, and so much more. Our subscription episodes feature some personal and vulnerable, real-life stories that are sensitive to some of the general public.
Healthy Living by Willow Creek Springs
Second Opinions Save Lives with Dr Robert Hoffman
Fear gets loud when cancer enters the room—so we turn up the volume on evidence, agency, and community. Joe shares a raw update from his latest chemo cycle, from brain fog and nausea to the quiet wins of returning strength, and we use that lived reality to ground a bigger conversation: how to choose treatments that are both effective and humane. We unpack why PubMed, peer review, and case studies matter, how to read claims with a skeptic’s eye, and what it looks like to build a plan that balances standard care with thoughtful additions—nutrition, metabolic strategies, and carefully dosed immunotherapy—without closing doors.
Dr. Hoffman explains the real menu inside “standard care” and why sequencing matters. Neoadjuvant chemo can buy time and reduce damage; surgery and radiation are tools, not defaults. We contrast this with celebrity “cures” and viral protocols that skip evidence and put patients at risk. The difference isn’t attitude—it’s accountability. Extraordinary claims deserve publication and scrutiny, not soundbites. We also share a cautionary story of a patient whose biomarkers rose after a dose reduction on a targeted drug, underscoring the need for second opinions before changing a stable regimen and the urgency of acting when numbers trend the wrong way.
What ties it all together is community. Patients who’ve lived it offer the straightest talk, the best practical tips, and the resolve to keep going. We lean on that network to navigate logistics, expand access to capable clinicians, and maintain hope built on measurable progress. If you’re facing tough choices, let this conversation be your map: ask better questions, verify the data, protect options, and move quickly when the facts change. If this helped you think clearer, follow the show, share it with someone who needs a steadier hand, and leave a review so others can find their footing too.
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Well, hello, and welcome back to the Healthy Living Podcast. I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, and we're happy that today, once again, Dr. Robert Hoffman is with us. Robert, welcome to the club. Everybody, glad to be here, Joe. Always. Always a pleasure. So this week we're gonna jump ship a little bit and get more into the community aspect of the work we're doing. Um, my my update is really minimal um since the last time we talked. I I'm slowly recovering from that last round of chemo and um gaining a little bit of strength. It just really knocked me for a loop last time. So I had like zero batteries. My nausea was at a 12 out of 10, and the taste in my mouth was just nasty as hell. But every day it gets a little better, and I got nothing to complain about. I I'll take this all day long over a giant lump sticking out of my neck, and it's just uh the cost of doing business out here, you know. And um I'm glad I'm getting a little stronger every day. My brain's starting to turn back on a little bit. That's the other thing, it's like your brain gets scrambled, you just forget everything, and you don't uh I don't know, it's just like you're like it's like you're drunk without any fun. And um, but it doesn't it's getting better every day. And you know, today I I I want to talk about a couple of things. One, um, you sent me over um or Shahiro sent me over um an email that had 13 case studies, and um I started looking through them, and and uh these are all published reports um that are published in a peer-reviewed periodical or site, the PubMed.
SPEAKER_02:Freely available to everybody, Joe.
SPEAKER_00:Right all listed on PubMed. And you know what's interesting? Um I've had a lot of really interesting guests on in the last few weeks, and more doctors and scientists have been coming on my show, various disciplines and various topics. But whenever, you know, I always find a way to throw my situation into the story because it's something always comes up that I can tie it to. And then when I talk to them about, you know, that we're publishing the case study on PubMed, all of all of a sudden they're their attention changes, you know, like they get like these are people that rely on this resource for quality information, and it comes from a lot of different sources. Some of it's um, you know, case studies, some of times it's uh um uh uh a trial, sometimes it's an IRB. There's all these different different things that can be published, but the point is, is it's all peer-reviewed and it's all vetted. It's not just you know, somebody throwing out on their YouTube channel, this is this thing I did, and this study that we conducted. Um, there's there's checks and balances with this. And the the scientists and doctors that I've been talking to, every time I mention, you know, that site, all of a sudden they're like, oh, interesting, let me look that up. And so really it carries some weight. And I and I want our listeners to realize, you know, there's information that comes at us from all these sources, and social media is throwing studies at us right and left, and YouTube and your friends and family and books, and you know, you just gotta take your time and really question and and source your information and realize, you know, where's it coming from? Is this just because somebody says that word study, that doesn't mean a damn thing unless it's really got some bona fides and and um you know somebody somebody else is looking at it, they're trying to prove the opposite. What's your thoughts on all that? Sorry, Joe. No, I was saying, what are your thoughts about that whole line of thinking that you know we really have to be critical with our with the information that's coming our way?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I just can tell you the a small experience I had last month. Um Russian TV came to came to interview me. Right, and they watched a podcast, I guess this goes all over the world, uh Joe Rogan and Mel Gibson.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_02:And Gibson went on that podcast and said, Yeah, I got three friends with stage four cancer. They took ivermectin, fenbendazole, and I don't know, methylene blue or whatever. They're all cured.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And the interview the interviewer asked me and said, What do you think about that? I said, I only take in information from peer-reviewed papers and established journals.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_02:That was my answer. So Mel Gibson can say anything he wants, and if it's really true, it should be published.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_02:And it should and it should be vetted by peer review. I mean, if that's a very spectacular result, and that guy is gonna sit there with that ridiculous smile he has and and tell us uh this is the truth. Um I don't think that's responsible at all. Agreed.
SPEAKER_00:Especially when somebody has a voice that you know people will listen to for whatever reason, whether you're uh he's a movie actor. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02:There's nothing that makes him an expert on cancer, right?
SPEAKER_00:Right, right. Yeah, no, and that's the problem, though, is somebody gets a a little bit of fame, they get a name, and then they say a thing, and automatically they're you know sort of accepted as some kind of a an authority on the subject, and and yeah, people are willing to and you know what the the Russians TV asked me, are you worried that people will give up standard therapy for this?
SPEAKER_02:And my answer to them was with very few exceptions, I don't accept patients who give up standard therapy.
SPEAKER_01:Right, right.
SPEAKER_02:We need to improve standard therapy, not replace it with with um how to say, replace it with therapy that's not been shown to be effective. Um especially clinical trials at least, or a lot of case studies, published articles. Um there's various degrees of evidence, but we need some at least reasonable evidence. And yeah, like you said, somebody has a fame and they can uh take advantage of that fame to say anything they want. Um it's not good, not good, and the cancer patient is probably the most vulnerable person there is 100% to pend it, and uh to hear that kind of stuff and think about giving up standard therapy, that's that's terrible.
SPEAKER_00:You know, it's funny, there's there's there's two edges to that because standard therapy sometimes their first course of action is maybe the most dramatic and most invasive and most potentially harmful. Whereas common sense would say, well, let's look at all the options as to what might work, and then let's look at the thing that might be the most effective and the least harmful. And then if we have to go to something more harmful, well, then you know, you have that to fall back on. I was talking to a chiropractor the other day, and and she's working with cutting-edge technology, and and and her thinking is that you know, a lot of back surgeries is are are unsuccessful, and they lead to even more problems, maybe a lot more so even than standard of care for cancer is, you know, because it's just really dicey. You're in there with with you know so many potential problems to happen, and you don't know how your body's gonna accept the changes, and you know, just so many things can happen. And her thinking is well, I I have solutions that could help you and definitely won't hurt you. And so it would make sense to try something like that before you go and jump into a surgery that you can't undo once you've done. And you know, like the standard of care. Like when I first went into UCI, first guy I talked to was the surgeon. And his answer was, we're gonna give you a little radiation chemo, and then we're gonna cut this thing out of you. And I said, Okay, well, I didn't know any different. So I'm just listening to him and trying to evaluate and not making any commitments, but just gathering information. Then I go to the radiologist, first thing he says is, You do not want surgery. And I'm like, whoa, you know, you're you guys are on the same team, you're working out of the same same clinic, and and one's telling me one thing, one's telling me something else. But then the radiologist says, Well, what we need to give you is 30 to 40 high dose radiation along with a little chemo, and that will probably make it so you won't need the surgery. And then I go do in research on that, and I go, Well, that's gonna leave me potentially dehabilitated, maybe lose my voice, maybe not be able to swallow, maybe be stuck on a feeding tube all my life, maybe my teeth fall out, maybe bones break. There's all these potential problems, and there's good evidence that cancer could return in a different place, a different way. It also is shown to be a pretty effective treatment for most people. Okay, great. I gotta weigh all that together. And then I talk to the chemo doctor, and she's like, Yeah, I work with the radiologist, we do this thing together. Then I meet Dr. Hoffman and the group, um, and we start talking about maybe some other solutions that um can be combined together using the best of some of the Western standard of care, along with some of these discoveries with diet and even these oxidative therapies that Dr. Exeme and some of the others are working with. And we came up with a a protocol that worked for me and would probably work for anybody that had the problem I had, you know, the way that I had it. For anybody else, I don't know, but I know that like we were able to look and say it was a necessity. I had to come up with something that worked because it was going to kill me otherwise. So it was really, I didn't have a whole lot of choice. I had to act and find something, but we found something that was very unlikely to have a lasting negative effect and might do a really good job at solving the problem, right?
SPEAKER_02:Well, Joe, um, and and and your point is is good, and the thing is the bottom line of what you say is the cancer patient has to do homework like you did. So surgery is standard care, radiation is standard care, chemo is standard care, a combination of any of the above, all standard care. There's a lot of options for standard care. So uh a cancer patient has to do homework or consult with people that'll tell them how should I say the informed truth that you don't have to do all these things at once. There is a very uh widely used protocol, what's called neo-adjuvant chemotherapy. That means chemotherapy before you do something else. Exactly. Surgery, radiation, and this will have the least damage to you among all the others, and you can always go to the other parts of standard care radiation surgery if the knee management chemo doesn't work. So my point is there's a a a pretty good menu to choose for standard care, and you're all within standard care. And so, but my previous point was um we still need to stay within the confines of standard care. One one part of it uh or multiple parts, we can't give up standard care um and and expect to have a good outcome because some Mel Gibson says so, or some quack that has a program says so. Um so the cancer patient, the poor cancer patient without doing a lot of homework is at the mercy of the oncologist. Right. And the oncologist can be really capricious.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_02:Um what they're gonna prescribe, and it's very easy for the cancer patient to say, okay, doc, whatever you say, I got cancer, help me out. And he the oncologist says, sure, I'm gonna help you out. And I'm sure the oncologist means well. But yeah, it's the cancer patient whose life is on the line, not the oncologist. So the cancer patient, unless the cancer patient does a lot of homework, they're at the mercy of the system. The system means well, but it doesn't work that well. Um true. So and a lot of folks they don't have the wherewithal to do the homework. They're they're just putting themselves at the mercy. Well, and another a lot of folks, I think, that may not be doing homework could do it.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly.
SPEAKER_02:They need encouragement, they're not gonna do it on their own. They need this podcast or they need our Zoom meeting.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:The community is the two million people who are gonna get cancer in the United States this year. How many are gonna be on either of those? Hundred?
SPEAKER_00:Not enough. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um the situation is just out of control. Uh we try to help one person at a time. Um that's all we can do. I'm I'm so happy to help one person at a time. Um well, speaking of that, it'd be great to help a thousand at a time, but we just don't have that ability.
SPEAKER_00:Well, speaking of one person at a time, you know, the community to me is so important that not only just for you know information from trusted sources, these are all people that have gone through it or they're sharing their nobody's more trustworthy than a cancer patient telling about his or her cancer. Exactly. And and so when I when I sit in that room with these people, I'm I'm talking, you know, it's funny. Before I was diagnosed, you know, you hear about the club, right? You know, you can't you don't know until you know. And once you get it, you're right. It is, it's true. Nobody can understand what it is like unless you've gone through it because you just can't. But when you're in a room of people who have all gone through it and and are going through it and and and are dealing with the you know long-term lifetime effects of this, it's it's it's a room that you just can feel okay to be vulnerable. You feel you feel like you can tell them anything. And I think that's really important. Um, you know, the the stakes are so high with the cancer patient that you know, if if somebody decides, well, I'm gonna just kind of take a chance and go do a thing, and maybe it works a little bit, but then that cancer comes back, it comes back stronger and meaner and more capable and ready to spread. And and every time you miss with cancer, it's more likely to come back and and spread throughout your body and do you some real damage. So you've got to come up with your best plan the first time out if you're pot if you can possibly, because each time you miss, it just gets worse. And and it's it's it's troubling for me, you know. I came from a place where I thought, well, you know, let's just go at this from the most natural, you know, there's an answer for everything in a plant here and there. And and yeah, maybe that's true, but we haven't figured that out, that's for sure. And the truth is you gotta you gotta do the research and figure out what's the best thing for what you got, and go at it 100%. Don't mess around and and uh dabble with something when you when you can hit it hard. Um now this this group that we're in to me is one of the most important resources, aside from you and all the work and the research you've done and the you know developing the methionase and really getting this diet down to an art and a science. Um, but the people sharing their experiences with this has been powerful. And we find over and over again that when somebody stays on a protocol that works, generally they stay on a course, right?
SPEAKER_02:And then all of a sudden the diligent people do better, there's no question. Yeah, it's not a hundred percent, but that's that's the trend.
SPEAKER_00:What with with these people we're talking about, generally, you know, you got Dr. Exume that's still battling metastasis, and he's going at a really aggressive chess game, and and and it can be like that. I think a couple of the other ones are in a pretty difficult spot that that they're finding their way through. But most of them, if you can get it to where you got it under control even a little bit, you can find an answer that keeps it there. But then every once in a while a doctor makes a change and all of a sudden things start going crazy. And we've got one of the members that we're dealing with now. And why don't you share the story? Um, because I think it's important for people to realize that even though you might be on a path where you've you're you're in remission or whatever they call it, you've got it resolved, and you're on some sort of a maintenance program, it's you're never done, and you've got to be diligent and mindful the whole way through.
SPEAKER_02:Well, we have one patient. I the story is not not fully clear yet, right? But it seems like this lady who had metastatic breast cancer, it really looked like it was very much toward remission, stable for two or three years. All of a sudden in June, her blood marker numbers, biomarker numbers started just climbing every few weeks. And the PET scan showed spread to the bones, to the abdomen. And I talked with her, and she says, Yeah, I went down to the oncologist put me on low dose of the drug I was taking. I think the the the numbers started going up in June. I think she's maybe not clear exactly when she started the low dose, but I suspect it was in June. Anyway, she went on low dose and her numbers are just climbing. I mean, if this story is correct and it's easy for the patient to get confused.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But if this story is correct, it's a lesson for everybody. When you when the doctor gives you, oh, we're gonna change this or that, get a second opinion. I mean, here's the lady under under, she's been doing so well, and all of a sudden the numbers go up every two, three weeks. The blood marker the biomarkers in the blood for the breast cancer. So I don't know. This this this isn't an unfinished story right now, and but I have a feeling at least even if it's not all exactly what I'm saying, what I I'm trying to get across is when you're doing well and the doctor tells you to change something, get another opinion.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know where they come from.
SPEAKER_00:Um and was the drug that she was on, did it have some kind of a lasting negative side effect?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it at high dose it was very nasty.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Uh she couldn't get off the couch. It's a very popular drug, very expensive. It's called NHER2.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:So at high dose, she couldn't get off the couch. So a couple years ago, she went to medium dose and has done really well. And what she told me that today or yesterday, oh, I went the doctor or whatever his name is, told me to go down a low dose. And I think she's not quite clear when that happened, right? But I surmised that it's it's directly concordant with going down to the low dose and the numbers going up.
SPEAKER_00:It makes sense. I mean, there she didn't change anything else. I mean, she's still on the diet, she's still doing everything else right.
SPEAKER_02:And why would a cancer, you know, steady eddy all these years all of a sudden make a kind of a discontinuous change? Right. I don't know. We'll learn more. But my what I want to say here is you know, we'll get more information on this story and and share with the folks. But my point is when the doc tells you to change something and you you're doing well, you know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Um you know, I I don't know. I don't know sometimes where people are coming from. But the my point is the cancer patient has to be so aware, so diligent, study hard. Your life depends on it. You can't just leave it your life in the hands of somebody else.
SPEAKER_00:Well, it it it couldn't be true or words, you know. That as as well-meaning as a doctor is, he's never gonna put the attention to your case the way you would. Of course not. You can't, it's not even a possibility. So he's got whatever, five, ten minutes, maybe half an hour to go look through your file, make some decisions based on his knowledge and understanding of the uh of it all. And I'm sure he's always gonna do the best that he knows, but that's it. That's that's that's what you get.
SPEAKER_02:And even like you said, getting a second opinion or or or more, you know, I would say, you know, get you know, use AI, get, you know, yeah, yeah, use every learn. And now these days you can learn anything with AI.
SPEAKER_00:You can AI is your tutor. Agreed, agreed. And there's, you know, there's just there's we have access to literally all the information on the planet at our fingertips right now, aside from you know, bits and pieces of some classified crap. But other than that, it's all available. We can access it one way or another, the same information the doctors have, and you know, even more because the doctors aren't going to go outside of their you know, their curriculum and the the or their comfort zone. Comfort zone, you know. That's that's that's the way they're trained.
SPEAKER_02:They go to their conferences and they but the good thing is some doctors like Dr. Song are different. You got a story in UC Irvine, and and that was the gospel truth, and it turns out it wasn't. That there is other things to do. This particular patient now has been told there's no more drugs left for her, only clinical trials. Wow. And you and I, we're not medical oncologists, but we know that isn't right at all.
SPEAKER_00:We know it. So you put on your Superman cape once again. You gotta hold a doctor's song, and he agreed to see her.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, he didn't agree to take her yet. Oh no, but at least I I told her you gotta be real indignant and really angry at your present oncologist. How you know, and oh, she said, Oh worry, I can handle that. Well, this this Sunday hopefully, hopefully on the call.
SPEAKER_00:I'm gonna give her uh uh a lesson of what I discovered worked with this guy, and he's a great guy, and if you can understand, kind of, you know, I mean, obviously, I only know him for you know the time I've spent with him, but I I know what I did and the response that I've gotten from him, and uh a few things. Number one, presenting you know, the the injustice of you know, you know you know an answer that might help you, and your doctor wouldn't help you, and that's so there's that injustice. That's the point, Joe.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. Your doctor wouldn't help you, and this is what is happening to this lady, exactly as what happened to you. Yes, he's he said, there's nothing more, all we got is clinical trials, right? And and and I said to her clinical trial, you're just gonna be a big mouse, right? Yeah, you have no idea. It's not for your benefit, it's for the doc. In this case, he's an academic UCLA doc to maybe become more promoted, yeah. Uh a drug company to make more billions, right? Uh-uh.
SPEAKER_00:No, absolutely. It it's it's the basically the same system, the UC system. It's all you know, it's all funded the same, they're all motivated by the same things. It's not necessarily a bad thing, it's just not necessarily good for you if you're in a spot like hers. And you know, um, so that's the the the most important thing, but also her willingness to get out there and do the hard thing, whatever it is. You know, when I told him, I go, I'll do whatever it takes. If I gotta move down to San Diego, I'll move down to San Diego. You tell me what I need to do, and I'll do it. And when he saw my persistence and willingness to what whatever, I want to I want. To live and I want, I want, I have an answer, and we can do this together. And he's he he his words to me were I'm not gonna leave you stranded. Those were his actual words, yeah. Beautiful words, yeah. And once he said that to me, I was like, Okay, I'm gonna be all right. Like, you know, like that lifeline got thrown to me, and I grabbed on, and I'm not gonna go under. So, yeah, hopefully, um, you know, she lives further away than I do, and and hopefully that's not gonna be an obstacle. One more hour, big deal. And she's willing to do what it takes, and it really doesn't matter where you live if you're willing to go and do what it takes. So uh to me, it's like you know, look, if you got a far doctor's appointment, I mean you're gonna go to Japan for your medpack. Exactly. I couldn't go farther, really. Like, that's about as far as you can go, and I'm gonna do what it takes, and I'm gonna raise up the money, I'm gonna carve out the time, I'm gonna get my ass over there.
SPEAKER_02:And it's not that much money. The whole thing will be under 5k, including the and we will just make it work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The$60 a night place. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and no, it's gonna well under$5k. Yeah, and it's it's a it's a very solvable problem, and that's that's the thing that to me, like when you get a mindset that says, I'm gonna take this all the way, and I go, I know where I'm going. I'm gonna have that MetPet that shows me I'm at I got no cancer in me, and we're gonna create a good solid maintenance program, and I'm gonna follow it to the T, and we're gonna check back every 18 to 24 months, and we'll just make regular trips to Japan and we'll we'll be on it. We know what we got going on.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So hopefully, um, you know, she'll be able to connect with Dr. Song in a similar fashion that I did. And um, and and maybe, you know, maybe he comes up with something that's not even on the menu that they even know. Maybe there's a chemo answer, maybe there's uh maybe Dr.
SPEAKER_02:Soto will have something different for sure if if if it's needed.
SPEAKER_00:Right, right, exactly. And and who knows, maybe with um this lady just going back on that medium dose of the drug would do what it needed to. I mean, it may. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:And her oncologist is not willing to do it. Wow, all right. Well, I don't get it. I don't know. I there's some disconnect, or uh I'm not getting it. Um I don't know, but her numbers are going up. Well, hopefully she's going up. June, July, August, September.
SPEAKER_00:Up so we gotta act quick. That's that's the key.
SPEAKER_02:And the PET scan, bone mats, abdominal mats. I showed her the new paper that you got, the newest one, Joe. We went over that on PubMed together. Okay, and she saw the before and the after this breast cancer lady who was just whole body full of medicine. The after picture was clean. She says, I want to be like that. I says, Well, you're gonna be.
SPEAKER_00:That's perfect, okay.
SPEAKER_02:Um you know, this lady was told to go to hospice.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_02:And and that's it. They all you know, most most in the developed world you get first line chemo, maybe radiation, maybe surgery, you get second line chemo. You fail second line, not much more we can do for you, but we'll put you on a clinical trial.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_02:You fail that hospice. That's the way it is. So this lady now is at the stage of clinical trial, and the chance of that helping her is really small, and then the next thing that she's gonna be told go to hospice. Yeah, that's unacceptable. Oh my gosh, it's so awful, Joe.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. All right, and that's what we're here for. Like you said, one patient at a time. We're gonna jump in and do everything we can, and um, that includes research, it includes connection, it includes you know, support, emotional, mental, everything we can offer. I mean, you know, at the end of the day, that that that will to fight is is as important as the answers that you get. You gotta, you know, if you lose your hope, everything falls to shit real quick. And we for sure you gotta keep that from happening. And uh, I'm looking forward to this Sunday and and you know, getting out there, you know, and yeah, you gotta give her a little bit of tutoring.
SPEAKER_02:I think she's she gets it. She she really gets it already, but she's a smart lady, you can tell she yeah, but you know, you you you've been through it with the same doc. You got him to take you on when he wasn't gonna.
SPEAKER_00:I'll share the nuance of what I've learned and and and hopefully give her a little bit of a a tool that that she'll be able to pull from.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So well, the bottom line is Dr. Song is a kind man. He's kind. That's clear.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And he's very capable. And yeah, he's been in the business more than half a century. And he's on it. Like, I mean, you look in even just in his in his clinic, he's got books stacked all over the place. You can tell he's he's reading up on the latest things all the time. Like, he's on this, you know. There's not he's no slouch when it comes to this. He's not just doing that same old thing over and over again. He's no, he's um, you know, even like you know, with the immunotherapy, he he's I mean, that's cutting edge, Joe. I know, and and we're working it in a way that's contrary to what the studies have shown their results, which had all kinds of negative side effects. And what we're doing is, in my opinion, much more likely to have a good result without the negative side effects.
SPEAKER_02:And he's well, you haven't had any discernible side effects so far.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, no.
SPEAKER_02:And that's really good.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and my my blood work is good. Um, my immune system's responding well, and now that I'm done with the chemo, I'm really excited to see the blood work start coming back stronger and stronger, you know, instead of getting beating, absolutely. It'll uh, you know, those those markers that have been going back and forth. Hopefully, they're just gonna get to that ultimate spot and just stay that way. Yeah. So, well, Robert, as always, it's a it's great to have you here. You know, thank you, Joe.
SPEAKER_02:Great to be here every time. We have a great discussion, we move, we move forward.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. And I I believe that we're gonna be able to help this lady and um and me too.
SPEAKER_02:I'm I I'm I'm I'm I'm 100% on that one. We're gonna help her.
SPEAKER_00:Um and also the the information you sent me, I forwarded over to uh Dr. Crowley, that compounding pharmacist I was telling you about. Yeah, and he responded quickly. He was really grateful I sent that to him, and I know he's gonna take his time and read through this stuff.
SPEAKER_02:So, you know well, you know, this guy may be our partner to make our own hominics.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I am I I'm gonna let him read through this stuff, and then I'm gonna talk to him about that project and see what he thinks about it.
SPEAKER_02:But I'm I'm confident that's a great connection, Joe.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and he's really versed with the gut biome, and he works with peptides, and the guy is brilliant. Like he as much as you know your science, this guy knows his science, and he's been working for sure, he's been working with um you know cannabis medicine for a long time, and he knows a lot of the the cutting edge research with that, but he's been working a lot with peptides and gut biome, and it's all really leading edge stuff. So he's really interested in this because it's new to him, too.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, well, we we need people like him on the team desperately.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. Well, I'm gonna do what I can to bring him aboard, and uh Robert, as always, I thank you for taking your time to share with us.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_00:And we'll see you on Sunday. You bet. All right, take care. Bye, everybody. All right, it's been another episode of the Healthy Living Podcast. I'm your host, Joe Grumba, and I want to thank all of our listening listeners for joining us, and we'll see you next time. You bet.
