Healthy Living by Willow Creek Springs
A podcast about practices to promote healthy lives featuring experts, businesses, and clients: we gather to share our stories about success, failure, exploration, and so much more. Our subscription episodes feature some personal and vulnerable, real-life stories that are sensitive to some of the general public.
Healthy Living by Willow Creek Springs
The PBM Princess: Navigating Healthcare's Financial Maze with Rachel Strauss
The mysterious world behind your healthcare bills just got a whole lot clearer. Rachel Strauss, dubbed the "PBM Princess" and CEO of her eponymous healthcare consulting firm, pulls back the curtain on the complex systems determining what treatments you can access and how much you'll pay.
Drawing from over two decades in pharmacy benefit management, Rachel delivers eye-opening insights into why certain medications are covered while others aren't, and sometimes why more expensive drugs are preferred over cheaper alternatives. Her mission? Making healthcare more affordable, accessible, and collaborative by bridging the gap between patients, providers, and payers.
The conversation takes a compelling turn when Rachel shares a recent success story—sourcing growth hormone medication from Israel at a 70% discount for a child whose treatment was capped by insurance. This exemplifies her approach to healthcare advocacy: finding creative, legal solutions when traditional systems fall short. She's also partnering with innovative companies like Leafwell Health to integrate cannabis consultations as alternatives to opioids, legitimizing treatments that insurance companies have been slow to embrace.
Rachel's perspective is refreshingly human-centered in an industry dominated by corporate interests and complex systems. When evaluating potential partners, she looks beyond buzzwords to understand the story behind the company and ensures their revenue model aligns with patient outcomes rather than exploitation. Her prediction that AI will transform healthcare through more precise risk assessment offers hope for a future where healthcare dollars are allocated more effectively.
Whether you're struggling with medical bills, denied treatments, or simply trying to understand your insurance options, Rachel's insights provide valuable guidance for navigating the healthcare maze. Connect with her on LinkedIn as Rachel Strauss, PBM Princess, or find her on Instagram and TikTok to learn how to become your own healthcare advocate in a system designed to be difficult to navigate.
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Well, hello, and welcome back to the Healthy Living Podcast. I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, and today we've got a very special guest. Her name is Rachel Strauss, and she's the CEO of PBM Princess LLC. She's a healthcare consulting firm on a mission to build an ecosystem of clients around three core goals making healthcare more affordable, accessible, and collaborative. And I think that that's where I want to start the conversation. I think that's really important. And I'll let you share everything else about yourself and your system and everything. But Rachel, welcome to the show. So great to have you here today.
SPEAKER_01:So great to be here, John. Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_00:Now, as we were talking before, you know, a lot of the guests on the show are practitioners or patients or people that have developed a product or a resource or some technique to find some way to help. But I think something that people don't think about or don't know or don't realize, or maybe they are very aware of as myself, um, insurance is such a paramount influencer in the kind of health that you have access to. And um, you know, we talk about influencers. People think about somebody doing a dog and pony show on TikTok. But the truth is when you need a treatment and you submit it to your insurance company, if you have one, and they say whatever they say, you know, they might say, Yeah, we'll do it, or it might be a$4,000 copay, or we can do it, but you got only one option and it's you know 50 miles from your house and you can't travel that far. Um, it seems like what you offer brings a beautiful bridge to this. What's your thoughts?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, it's it it's it's no question. So my passion really has always been Joe in helping people. Um, I'm the daughter of a physician, I'm the granddaughter of a pharmacist. I've always grown up in a world where you just help people. And unfortunately, the payer side of you know helping people hasn't really done its job. Um, you know, I hear often healthcare is broken. And I would argue, um, and and I do give Dr. Jonathan Weasen, who lives in Israel, he's the founder of a telemedicine company. I always give him credit because he always comes back at me and says, healthcare's not broken. How we pay for it is what is broken.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:And, you know, with science and advancements in technology, he's 100% correct. And we really are not designed to do that. And so I spent, you know, the first 20 plus years of my career uh working on the payer side, specifically in what's called the pharmacy benefit manager side of the world. So I was behind the scenes. Um, you know, people don't often think about how prescription drugs are paid for. They go to the pharmacy, if they have insurance, they pay a copay and nobody gives it much thought. How much is the other side of that medication?
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And I was on the other side. I understand why drugs are covered, why certain drugs are excluded. Um, even when more expensive drugs are covered over less expensive medications, which sounds backwards. And it's not necessarily because the more expensive drug is better. It's just we are heavily influenced here by pharmaceutical companies. And, you know, when I, you know, because I wear a lot of pink and I'm not shy, Joe, as you'll get to know in our limited time together. Um, I be I was once introduced as the PBM princess. Um, because I I happen to wear pink and, you know, and and I kind of laughed when I was given that nickname. But when you're given a nickname and you're in an industry you want to stand out, I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna roll with it. So I left um, I left my 23-year corporate job and watched PBM Princess LLC as an attempt to give a voice to a very difficult side of the industry. And unfortunately, if you're getting healthcare bills, they're complicated and people don't understand what to do with them.
SPEAKER_00:And so the the influence so many of them like they just keep rolling in, and you're like, do I open this one or do I just let it go?
SPEAKER_01:You know, and in fact, I have one right behind me, you know, from a doctor visit from my daughter, and I'm looking at it and it shows what I owe. And the funny thing most people realize is just because it says what I owe, yeah, you know, you do have the opportunity to negotiate that.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And you have the opportunity to reach out. And so, you know, for the consumer, you know, really I've done this more altruistically. My business was not um today is not necessarily set up just to help the individual, but through TikTok and Instagram and you know, other social media channels, I am building out what I hope to be a whole library of ways to help people and understand how they can negotiate their bill.
SPEAKER_00:Nice.
SPEAKER_01:Where I have built um several thousand followers is on the business side, which is on LinkedIn. And, you know, really what I've focused on and how I earn a living, quite honestly, is working with companies that are determined to help the patient side.
SPEAKER_00:Wow.
SPEAKER_01:That's where I will refer individuals that call me, but really business owners, you know, trying to help them, whether it's with telemedicine or a fun side is I'm very getting heavily involved in the cannabis side of healthcare. And cannabis as an alternative that employers can actually sponsor for their patients, utilizing physicians. You know, even our alternative medicine space is so complicated, even, you know, where it's legal in our country, which is 38 states. You know, you don't tell a patient they have high blood pressure, go take a blood pressure pill.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:In the cannabis industry, a doctor writes a script, but then patients have no guidance. They just walk into a dispensary. And so we need to connect the dots. We need patient advocates, we need physicians to understand how their bills are going to be paid when they send these bills out to patients and to care and to really work together.
SPEAKER_00:Well, in case you didn't know, which you probably didn't, I've been involved with cannabis medicine for over 40 years. And I've developed products, worked with doctors, and been in and out of the quote unquote legal side of things. And um, that was always sort of the big I was more involved before we passed our recreational law here in California, which really kind of undermined everything. But it, you know, who knows where it's gonna go. But the problem was always couldn't get insurance to look at it, you know. And every once in a while, there was like somebody come to me and said, Oh, we've got a workaround, we got this thing, but I never actually saw it work. And that's what I'm here to tell you.
SPEAKER_01:So at PBM Princess, I work with a company called Leafwell Health.
SPEAKER_00:Nice.
SPEAKER_01:Um, I'll give them a shout out. They were originally direct to consumer, but Leafwell, that is what they are. They are a physician telemedicine platform to discuss cannabis options and to move people off of opioids and rheumatoid arthritis. Um, the founder herself is a can't is a cancer survivor, so understands you know just how beneficial it can be. And so the employer and getting insurance to pay for it is when you link the physician's eye.
SPEAKER_00:And we've got at least while they have a dispensing anything, it's really a consulting, which is the big piece that's missing, you know. As a dispensary operator at the time, you know, 15 years ago, I was taking clients, patients into a consultation and sharing with them, you know, what I learned and said, well, you know, and I helped dozens and dozens of people get off opiates and you know, find their way through the, you know, 15 years ago, it was a lot more clumsy than it is today. And still, uh, I watched, you know, these people that were 50, 60, 70 years old that were, you know, running out of their oxycotton script, you know, four or five days before it could get renewed, and they were in misery for that time and had to go through withdrawals and got it to the point where they threw the script out.
SPEAKER_01:So you get it. I mean, and so that is really what I'm about is just helping people navigate and giving a voice to these really cool startups, or you know, Leafall's not a startup. They've been, they've served over half a million patients since they started, I believe, seven years ago. But other, there's just so many exciting evolutions in the payer space. And, you know, and you know, we're living in a world where the relic insurance companies like Blue Cross, Blue Shield, United, Cigna, you know, you're in California, um, Kaiser, they're just not evolving with you know where this is at. And, you know, and if this isn't making accusations, but you start to wonder, you know, at what point is it profit over patience?
SPEAKER_00:Well, and I think, you know, part of it, I think there is an inherent issue with the system, with an institution so big as a Kaiser or a Blue Cross, because things don't change quickly or easily or inexpensively. And that's one of the reasons why, you know, standard of care is many years behind the science. And even though they're, you know, updating it quick as can, I'm sure there's huge gaps between what's available and what is approved and what they'll a doctor will even recommend because they don't know about it.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, it's amazing. And I know on a previous podcast you've had menopause as a topic. I think that was released today. And it's it's wild, even in women's health issues, how many treatments and things are there are out there, yet the lack of education the physicians are given and the lack of approval you see from the insurance side. You know, we're so quick to put women on antidepressants and things that really just be her own.
SPEAKER_00:No, right? Yeah.
unknown:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:And and I think that's part of the issue is like they have evidence that says if you do this, there's a this much chance that that'll happen. But there's also all this potential for negative, but they seem to be willing to accept that negative uh, you know, whatever you want to call it, collateral damage, if you will, because they've got some kind of stuff they can count on. I know, you know, with my cancer treatment, I've I've been around the world with doctors, and I've been, you know, taking the matter into my own hands and researching and meeting with all sorts of, you know, modern and and old and you know, just learning everything I can on most of the things I present to a doctor that is covered by the insurance, they look at me and say, I just don't know about that.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, it's it's sad, and you know, I'm happy you're here today and uh, you know, really being your own advocate. And that's really what we get to. Um, you know, is is having to be our own advocate and working a system that's not designed to be easy. You know, I was on a I made a post yesterday on LinkedIn. I saw it right before this, I had almost almost 250,000 impressions on it on LinkedIn. I think my largest. And all I said was, yeah, I got on the plane yesterday to fly home from Phoenix, and the flight attendant, it was a full Southwest flight, and they said we only have 60 overhead bins for 170 passengers. I felt to myself, you know, like that work, it doesn't work, and what they're banking on. I mean, people don't typically day do day trips when they take an airplane. And in fact, with all of the extra charges, even Southwest charging for baggage, it's gonna have to happen. And yet they don't have classes, first class, second class, you know, they or first class and um not second class, first class, and you know, priority or anything like that. So, you know, it's it's really they're wanting you not to use it, and that is how healthcare is designed on the payer side. And if we don't use a service that we're buying, we are going to get a lot sicker, and that is what is going to be exhaustive on the system.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and that's something that I always thought like Kaiser kind of had a good thought about, like they always talk about, you know, we we advocate for preventative healthcare and all these things. But really, you know, I don't see that in action the way that that, you know, it could. I think healthcare could focus on things like, you know, diet and weight loss and and um you know disease prevention. So much of our disease is preventable simply, you know, by a few health corrections that cost very little, if anything.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, correct. I mean, even if something is basic as an aspirin a day, right? I mean, things that we've been we've learned, you know, baby aspirin, I think was something that came out years ago for um heart disease and just you know, just even some of the alternative therapies like cannabis, as we mentioned, but you know, outside of cannabis, there's there's an entire industry, the wellness industry. Oh yeah, you know, I mean, as I'm sure you're familiar with other podcasts and things that people are coming out with. We've got to have, you know, a different way um for this to happen. And I apologize, we are on a podcast and I have an I know it's all good, it's good to see it. Um and audio file anyway.
SPEAKER_00:I'm filming, so it's all good.
SPEAKER_01:I'm so sorry, Leah. You have to get out. This is my okay, all right. Sorry about that. I sent my kids. Well, for those potential working mothers who are listening out there, um, I sent to you know, it's purple day. My kids have teams they're on all year, and um, I read the email that today was purple day, but for our my kids are on the purple team for their school. Yeah, okay, and he's closing the door, but I just that I was wrong. The purple day is tomorrow, not today. So I send my kids in the wrong clothes for spirit day.
SPEAKER_00:You are evidence that self-employed people are the hardest working people out there, so I think self-employed or even employed, period.
SPEAKER_01:Because it is, you know, when you're a mom and you have elementary kids, kids they can't necessarily always be responsible for themselves. The emails are crazy.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I can only imagine. It's I'm fortunately past that point in my life. So the grandkids don't come with a lot of emails. I love it.
SPEAKER_01:No, just fun.
SPEAKER_00:Yep, exactly. So this sounds like you're really jumping into um a gap in the system that really needs to be bridged. And why don't you kind of share with us a little bit about how it actually works? Like you are out there in the community, you're listening to various sources of information, but how do you come across a company or a doctor or an entity that is providing something that you want to include in your toolbox?
SPEAKER_01:Sure. So I attend probably seven or eight conferences a year. Um, I do speak at a lot of them, but I'm also always willing to meet with somebody who says they're doing something out of the box. And when I engage, when PBM Princess engages formally with an entity, it's because I fully support what they're doing and the mission of how they help patients. And then on the other side, it's just watching the trends, learning and listening. Um, I don't want you to get a PG 13 rating on this podcast. So I'll use uh less colorful language, but I have jokingly become the oh poop girl, and I don't need poop, for many employers and health insurance consultants out there because they know that if they have something that somebody can't afford, they call me and they say, Hey, can you help this person? Right. That is, you know, Brandy Glanville with somebody that I'm in the process of helping as I continue to get her medical bills that she's so publicly spoken about, and helping negotiate with her with a client of mine that I work with called Highlight Health. Um, but you know, I'll give you one right before this call uh was a mother with a child who's on growth hormones. And her growth hormones, you know, were capped at how much her plan was willing to pay for them.
SPEAKER_02:Of course.
SPEAKER_01:The child is still on those growth hormones because that's part of the treatment. And so what I did is I aligned her. Um, we looked at sourcing those medications from another country, um, Israel, in fact, for this one. And I was just on the other call earlier than this podcast, and we found them for her for 70% less coming from Israel. It is the exact same drug, Joe. In fact, it's manufactured um out that way, and it's taking out one less shipping cost for them. And now they can, you know, now their health insurance plan did agree to pay for it at a 70% reduction. And so the call I had before this was setting up the pharmacy that is fulfilling the claim legally. The member is allowed to import this claim. Um, under, you know, our laws, we do allow individual importation of medication, uh, meaning anybody can resort, research their medications and complying with the laws in that country to meet with a physician, etc. And we're getting that medication shipped tomorrow, and she'll have it early next week. And we found 70% savings on it.
SPEAKER_00:Wow. I I never had any idea that that was even a possibility or an option. I love that.
SPEAKER_01:So, you know, and that's really why the majority of the people who I, you know, talk to are employers, because what we just did is we just took something that would have been unaffordable for them and their premiums would have gone through the roof next year, and we found a manageable way for them to pay for it so that that patient can get what they need and it's at a reasonable price that doesn't break the system and and you know, channel of risk. I often joke, you know, if you've had to buy a car for a 16-year-old, you're also having to buy them car insurance.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Can you imagine if probably gasoline too and maintenance?
SPEAKER_01:And can you imagine if every American's health premiums were that of a 16-year-old driver, we would be in big trouble.
SPEAKER_02:Horrible.
SPEAKER_01:So it's right. And so what we're trying to do is level the risk so that people who are really sick can afford what they're getting, but keep the healthy people healthy.
SPEAKER_00:Nice. So what are the um I don't know, the characteristics or the qualities of a client? I mean, it sounds to me like the way you get out there, you're just out there, you're talking to these people, you're in that world. So you're when it's like anything, you know, you want to get into a world, you you meet a person and then you meet their friends, and you you you become in that world. And so it sounds like you've integrated that well enough that you have access to kind of real-time information. So when new things are coming your way, like there's got to be some sort of a checklist that says, oh, this is somebody I'm maybe interested. Oh, this is somebody I'm definitely interested in, or this is somebody I got to drop what I'm doing to go talk to. How does it work like that for you?
SPEAKER_01:Sure. So first and foremost, I want to know how they're differentiating themselves in the space. I want to make sure that it's not something in a sea of buzzwords. Um, just I think every industry has their own buzzword, whether it's health, automotive, anything. Um, and we also in the payer side, there are a lot of buzzwords. So it's first figuring out how you get past that. And then it's understanding what motivates for me, it's the story that built the company. I want to hear not the salesperson's pitch. I want to hear why that company built what they built. Um, almost the the human side of the story, the need they saw and why they saw it, and you know, how they're gonna make it better. And then ultimately I like to know how their revenue works. Is it aligned with patient outcome? Is it a lot? Everybody deserves to make money. Um I get hired and I'm paid a consulting fee, and that's how I get paid. Um, but to me, I want to know that I'm not making money charging somebody more for a product. That's not gonna feel good and help me sleep at night.
SPEAKER_00:It's a difference between equitable and exploitative.
SPEAKER_01:Correct. And so I just really want to find those types of partners. And then when I get really excited, I'll tell you the most exciting company I'm contracted work with doesn't actually charge at all to be put on a health plan.
SPEAKER_03:Wow.
SPEAKER_01:Um it's a it's a father of a child of a child who has a um cebral seizure disorder. And when they were going through the diagnosis, this is his story, by the way. The catches that caught me. He was explaining that you know, he went to all these doctors, and you know, by the time he got to Dr. Seven, Dr. Seven said, Oh, you went to Dr. Two and Four. Somebody should have known you didn't need five or six.
SPEAKER_00:You could have probably I'm well aware of that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So he built a system that literally can take data from an from the medical carrier, and it looks at all of these different physician visits and codes. And when certain criteria are hit, it immediately says, We've got one. We got a patient here that's gonna doesn't need to go have this or this test. We already know that if they had those two, you you're wasting time continuing. And so he doesn't charge to put his analytics into a health plan. He charges when he engages the patient and then goes from there, rightfully so. Um, but you would be amazed at how hard it is to just get his data into the system.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Um, I thought it'd be simple, but I'm like, yeah, but they don't know how to plug it in. And so to me, that's unacceptable. We have technology, we have the ways to help people live better. And, you know, that to me is what I drop everything for, and I go I go to bat for them.
SPEAKER_00:Nice.
SPEAKER_01:And my, you know, my final thought is, you know, I'm I am very heavily known in my space um just because I've spent two decades getting being friendly, if you will.
SPEAKER_02:Sure.
SPEAKER_01:But where I'm really focused on this next 10 years of my career is getting employers and people who are insured, whether it's through an individual plan or through their employer, how their program works and before they have to use it.
SPEAKER_00:I love it. I love it. That I mean, you know, I think one of the biggest problems with insurance is it doesn't come with any kind of a training manual. And you know, you sign up because you have to, usually for some reason, whether it's your own health or or maybe you get an offer through a company you work for or whatever it is, but then you just get this policy and then a card. And if you need it, you go to the doctor and you hand them your card and you just kind of follow what they say. Like there's never um there's never a training manual that says, Oh, well, you're here, you have these choices, you know, and I think that what you're offering would present some semblance of that, which would change everything, really.
SPEAKER_01:That's what that's my goal. That's what I'm trying to do.
SPEAKER_00:I love it. So we're running low on time, but I always want to hear like two things. One, you know, you're looking at the cutting edge of healthcare, and I I I have a lot of guests that come on and they talk about things that are involved with AI and and software, and um, there's a lot of conversation about telemedicine. Those are two major transformations I see in healthcare and everything else in in life right now. But are there any other major um factors that you see that are gonna be influencing, you know, the the I'm gonna say two letters.
SPEAKER_01:You want to take a guess?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:First letter is the start of the alphabet.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:And then I'll let you buy another vowel.
SPEAKER_00:AI.
SPEAKER_01:Boom. That is going to be, I hope, what truly changes the trajectory of healthcare. Um we on the healthcare payer side are using AI in ways that are um, I think just amazing. It's now not just about, you know, predicting risk. You know, we've used actuaries for years, and that's all insurance, right? Whether it's flood insurance, life insurance, there's factors that go in. But now with AI, we can drill in so much more specifically onto what the risk actually is, because the better you can handle and manage risk and get so fine and so nitty-gritty, you can start lowering the premiums and using it to do more things with those dollars.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:So AI that is from the paying for the healthcare side, right down to what I was talking about before, is putting in AI to start like understanding, you know, the the automation side of healthcare. And, you know, like we talked about with cannabis and understanding data and putting it into you know learning machines that can actually start looking at prescribing patterns of physicians and where we help the opioid crisis in this country. And I'm I'm so thrilled that I'm at this phase of my career where I'm not fully exhausted. I have young kids. So I am tired, Joe. But that you know, I've I I I've got 20 years behind me, God willing, I'll have 30 or 40 more ahead of me.
SPEAKER_00:There you go.
SPEAKER_01:And I will get to see where we are with technology.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I I I think you're right. I think that um it'll be very interesting and exciting to see uh a few years from now when AI has a chance to examine all the data it's collected over the last several years. Like right now, it's looking at multiple sources of information and sometimes it messes things up. But I think as it looks more at actual submitted, you know, cases and facts, I think it'll become a lot more accurate, reliable, and and valuable.
SPEAKER_01:I I couldn't agree more.
SPEAKER_00:So on a final note, I know that you know your experience has uh afforded you so many different uh people that you've affected, influenced in many different ways. I always like to hear about at least one just incident that just captures you as like, wow, I helped this person in a really uh traumatic way.
SPEAKER_01:Um, you know, I think this growth hormone example right before this call is the one so fresh of mind. Um I think the first time I got to talk to Brandy was also really amazing because she is so she's so public and her health, which she doesn't need to make public, she has made public.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And, you know, kind of knowing that this could happen to somebody in such a high profile case.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:That to me, um, and knowing that I'm I haven't helped her yet. We're in process of getting the bills and we're getting ready to go to bat for her.
SPEAKER_00:You're well on your way.
SPEAKER_01:We do have a lot of HIPAA laws in this country, so things have to be put in place so that we can. Um, but I'm excited to have good news for her, but just the potential of hope and understanding that it's so hard and frustrating when you get those bills um to have resources out there that can advocate. So that would I would say that's another another recent one.
SPEAKER_00:I love it. Um, so this is a place where I give you a place to sum up your thoughts or give us a parting shot, and most importantly, how somebody can get a hold of you and and access your resources.
SPEAKER_01:Parting shot, I will say this is a wellness podcast. Um, be your biggest advocate.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Something isn't right, talk about it, research it. Don't just Google or chat GPT it, but do the research on who else you can talk to. Um I am not a physician, I just know how to pay for one. Um, but please reach out at any time. I am my largest social channel, it is definitely LinkedIn. Um, Rachel Strauss, PBM princess. You can't miss me if you Google those few words.
SPEAKER_00:Um, but I can't PBM princesses out there with uh a business carrying that name, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I know. It's it was it was uh it was something I had to think about because it does make it kind of sound silly. But at the end of the day, the princess part to me is that I have a voice and I'm giving it a platform and I'm gonna use it to take care of people. And that's my parting shot. I'm on Instagram, Rachel Strauss or the real Rachel Strauss on TikTok.
SPEAKER_00:I love it. Well, thank you so much for joining us and always like to extend the offer. Um, we had a great conversation. There's always more to talk about. Feel free to reach back. And uh, you know, as I suspect a lot of these cutting-edge um guests, they're they're paving the way. So I'm sure there will come a point where you've got a lot of new information to share with us. And uh yeah, just grateful you were here with us today.
SPEAKER_01:Thanks, Joe. Keep fighting. You look amazing.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, you bet. Thank you. All right, this has been another episode of the Healthy Living Podcast. I'm your host, Joe Grumba, and I want to thank all the supporters that make the show possible, and we will see you next time.
