Healthy Living by Willow Creek Springs
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Healthy Living by Willow Creek Springs
Outside the Box and Still Breathing with Dr Robert Hoffman
What happens when you're told standard cancer protocols are your only option, but your intuition screams otherwise? In this powerful conversation with pioneering cancer researcher Dr. Robert Hoffman at the Anti-Cancer Incorporated Laboratory, I share how my cancer journey veered dramatically from conventional wisdom—and saved my life.
After being misdiagnosed for nine months ("you're too healthy for it to be cancer"), I faced an aggressive squamous cell carcinoma that traditional medicine wanted to attack with disfiguring surgery and debilitating radiation. But something didn't feel right. Dr. Hoffman explains why this represents a fundamental problem in cancer care: "They're so locked into their guidelines... they don't have an end game. It's a process. They keep you in treatment. You're never out of treatment."
Through connecting with innovative doctors willing to challenge the status quo, I discovered a multi-faceted approach that produced remarkable results: chemotherapy combined with methioninease enzyme therapy, oxidative treatments, and a targeted low-methionine diet. The tumors that once threatened my life disappeared, leaving conventional doctors stunned.
Dr. Hoffman believes this patient-led revolution represents the true cutting edge of cancer treatment: "The leading edge are patients like you. That's the leading edge." Like Galileo whispering "still, it moves" after being forced to recant his theories, these breakthrough approaches continue to work despite institutional resistance. As more patients share their success stories, the paradigm slowly shifts.
Have you or someone you love faced cancer? I'd love to hear your experiences with both conventional and alternative approaches. Subscribe to follow my ongoing journey and discover conversations with more innovative researchers working to transform cancer care.
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Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy Living Podcast. I'm your host, joe Grumbine, and today I am sitting here in the Anti-Cancer Incorporated Laboratory with my good friend, dr Robert Hoffman. Hi, everybody, and even my wife is here with us, but she's a little shy, okay, anyways, I'm just really grateful for this whole experience. You know, robert's been part of this podcast now for what about five months Seems, so it's been a minute. He's been not only following but helping guide me down this journey of solving my cancer problem and it's been remarkable to have a man like this in my orbit and to be able to rely on information that is sound and judged fairly and scrutinized and I get honest opinions. I can throw this guy a question and know that he's not going to tell me this is how it is. He's going to say well, here's what I think and here's why I think that and here's the evidence that backs it up.
Speaker 1:And, man, that's hard to find these days. You know you go along and everything's an infomercial. Everybody's telling you how it is and they're telling you about this study, but they don't show you the paper. They tell you about the evidence, but they don't show you how many people were involved or who paid for it, or you know, you're just supposed to take people at their word and their expertise and you say to yourself, well, why hasn't cancer been solved? And so Dr Robert Huffman here. He understands why cancer hasn't been solved and he's dedicated over 50 years of his life to helping to solve it and that's where he spends his time and that's what he does, and I deeply respect that. Robert, what's your thoughts on all this?
Speaker 2:Well, my thoughts is that we need cancer patients like you, joe, that got your diagnosis and tackled it, did everything in your power to learn and act on it, and you got a fantastic result and you're sharing it with the world. We need more folks like you. I think that's more important than all the research, all the doctors to have patients that are really taking charge of their own journey, their own program, getting advice wherever they can, acting on it and sharing it. This is how we're making progress against cancer. The leading edge are patients like you. That's a leading edge.
Speaker 1:And I think there's this synergy that has to happen. We have the people doing the research, because the people that are walking the journey. We have to solve our problems. We have to test it, we have to try it. We have to do our problems. We have to, we have to test it, we have to try it, we have to do it, we have to endure it. That doesn't give us any time to sit there and study it and set up us uh uh you're studying it every day.
Speaker 2:We are, yeah, it's in your body exactly every day. You're, uh, you're studying it more than anybody else can study it.
Speaker 1:Well, I think that one of the biggest keys to this and I think that that's part of why I do this podcast is to share the information.
Speaker 2:Not only the information, just share yourself. Yes, look at me Right, look what happened to me Exactly and this is how it happened. Yes, this is no information can match the information that you got learned by yourself, from yourself.
Speaker 1:And you know, the more I learn, as I'm, you know, getting closer to the other side of this is how close I came to this not being a good outcome. I didn't realize, you know, I mean anybody who's listening may not know the story, but originally I had this lump on my neck and not lump grapefruit. Yeah, well, it was. It started out as a lump turned into a grapefruit but, but I had a doctor tell me that you know, it's probably not cancer because you're so healthy. And I I, it's what I wanted to hear. You go to a doctor. He tells you what you want to hear. You're like, oh good, I'll be okay. And I let it sit there for almost nine months.
Speaker 1:And now, knowing what I know today about the cancer that I have, it's a very aggressive, very capable, very powerful disease that kills a lot of people. And tony gwynn, yeah, and and and, just it's, it's, it's um, it's cunning it, it mutates quickly, it is, it spreads rapidly, it adapts it up, regulates it's, it's a formidable foe. And now that I'm sitting here going, wow, two things. Number one I just thought it was going to get OK on itself, because I'm a guy who's healthy, I'm a guy who believes in the power of positive thinking and visualization and doing all the right things and you know, a lot of times it works. But that doesn't mean when you're up against this, and that's one piece of the puzzle. And the other piece of the puzzle was I thought I was doing everything right and I cut out the sugar, I cut out the carbs and I was eating tons of protein and I was living this keto world and the Mediterranean diet and eating fish and good quality meats and sardines and all of this stuff that now I know was feeding the hell out of this cancer and that's why all the things I did weren't working, because I was just, on one hand, I was trying to smack it with a fly swatter. On the other hand, I was feeding it everything it wanted to eat and it just kept growing.
Speaker 1:And it was really when I got the diagnosis in October of 2024, and it hit me like a ton of bricks when I realized what I was up against and I just switched this giant breaker switch that says okay, now I have to solve this and that's my whole life became that there was nothing else. I didn't worry about my business and worry about my friends, my relationships there was. I just needed to solve this and started studying and reading and learning and meeting people. Learning and meeting people, and I think what happens, and you know, robert, you're, you're a, you're a guy who's a pioneer, so you get your, you, you beam a certain frequency, you think away and I think people that are aligned with that, somehow we find each other. Yeah, and I don't know how it works I think there's an intelligence in the universe.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's out there. Absolutely. Sometimes I feel like I'm just a terminal, yeah, and and the intelligence is is locked onto my brain. Yeah, and he's he, she. It is telling me something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, and you people call it downloads, they call it projection.
Speaker 1:It doesn't matter, yeah, and I don't get hung up on on terms, I just know that I agree with you and and I feel like when I, when you put your heart into something, like when you really mean it and you really mean it, what you're doing is you can feel it, it's, it's you know, you, you're, your whole presence is put into your work and and it means everything to you and you can tell, and there's something that you can get out of that that you don't get. When you're just trying to get the grant money or you're just trying to get the promotion, or you're just trying to whatever, sell the product or whatever there's, there's a you don't, you don't get that same thing. You don't get that connection for that. And I think you have that connection and I, somehow, when I, when I, when I found you, I still remember, like you know, you go through life and you have these little crossroad moments where something happens. I remember when you responded to my email yeah, you signed it, jo it Joe, yeah, exactly. And you remember Joe and I remember, yeah, you're Joe, yeah, I dear Joe'd you Exactly, and then I can remember from there it just went boom, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so we've been walking down this path and you know for all the listeners who've listened if you haven't, go back and listen to all the Robert Hoffman episodes and you can get caught up. But we've come all the way from. I was looking at getting a surgery, then radiation and chemo, and then we decided that we could go after it with chemo only, along with this diet, the methioninease enzyme, oxidative therapies, all the things we're doing. It's never just this one thing. And then we got this remarkable, miraculous result that everybody the doctors, everybody says oh, my God, I have people today going.
Speaker 2:I looked at the series of pictures yes, I look at the series of pictures and it started about 12 days after you started your chemo 10 to 12 days after the chemo. You could see the difference.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Probably even before that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I felt it right away, after about two or three days, and I started sleeping. That was the difference because, remember, this thing was so stretched out that it was. It was hitting my nerves, I couldn't sleep yeah I was couldn't get more than an hour, hour and a half of sleep a night and it was destroying me.
Speaker 1:That was. You know, you can't, you don't have an immune system if you're not sleeping. No, no. And and after about three days of that chem, all of a sudden I slept for like six hours and I was like whoa, I could tell it was diminishing.
Speaker 2:And even now on your second, how should we say?
Speaker 1:That seems round two that's what I call it.
Speaker 2:Yeah round two.
Speaker 1:Yeah, first infusion round two yeah, yeah, 2.1.
Speaker 2:2.1. Round two. Yeah, first infusion, round two. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, checkpoint one you're feeling it, I'm feeling it, I I thought those lymph nodes are receding.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what I had left so? So just a quick follow-up. We had a ct scan about three weeks after my last uh, my last infusion, six, eight weeks ago, and it showed that the primary and the large tumor were gone and there was still some activity in two lymph nodes. But I could feel them. It was like five centimeters. It was a decent-sized still piece left. That's our target now. We didn't know, it could be necrotic tissue, it could be still active cancer.
Speaker 2:We're going to assume it's active cancer. Yeah, the fact that it's shrinking with the with the chemo says that with the next round, right, just it's it's cancer, absolutely so we're not.
Speaker 1:We're in the right direction, so but what we did was the the doctors that were treating me at UCI, and I have nothing but good things to say about UCI. It's been an amazing experience. They're good people, they have a great bedside manner. They're good people, but they're stuck in a box and they operate from a very rigid system that doesn't allow Rigid system, a rigid system.
Speaker 1:It is and they're all in it. And the thing that I didn't like about them is when I go and I share my thoughts with them and I say, well, what about this? Couldn't we do this? We never had a discussion.
Speaker 2:Well, I think it was always just no. They're so, like most of the cancer doctors, they're so locked into their guidelines, right and? And you know, in cancer there's no answer. There's no answer to cancer, right, if the company so, for for folks to substitute that absence of answers, they have their guidelines, so they have something to go by, right and and, and they need that, um, they gotta have it. And so, um, and that's most of the doctors, they're, they're guideline doctors. Um and uh, they don't. That gives them confidence, confidence in what they're doing. I'm following the guidelines. How can I go wrong?
Speaker 1:But the problem with the guidelines are they don't have an end game. They don't have a it's a do game.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, it's not an end game Right.
Speaker 1:It's a process. They keep you in treatment. You're never out of treatment.
Speaker 2:These are the accepted, most accepted treatments. These are the guidelines. It's in the book and it's and as Dr Exame would always say on our Zoom cancer patient. Zoom, you get the sort of standard guideline, you get the standard outcome Right and for some cases that's good.
Speaker 1:Well, they're looking out five years.
Speaker 2:For a lot of cases, it means you're going to die real soon, right?
Speaker 1:And they're looking out five years.
Speaker 2:It's a long time for them well, and and for some cancers, nobody, essentially nobody, can make it to find exactly metastatic pancreatic cancer. The patient who makes that for five years is is like a. You know one of these centenarians that lives for 110 years, exactly it. They're outliers and yet it happens. Yeah, the treatment that's offered to these people. That may be a necessary treatment, but it's far from sufficient. So we need to be innovative, we need to improve on the standard and that doesn't make us a bunch of oddballs.
Speaker 1:We want to improve based on science and we're doing it Well you know the thing is is that the people that are willing to keep going past where the boundary lies are always chastised. They're always the doctor song. Today was talking about Galileo, and they wanted to run him out on a rail you know for his theory.
Speaker 2:Well, that's, that's exactly right. And yet look at us today. Well, they, so the church had him right by the neck there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And they made him recant. Right, and he said it in Latin or Italian the planets still move, exactly, they still move, or something he said they still move and what they did to him was an improvement over what they did to Bruno a couple hundred years before, 150 years before. They put him on a pyre in the center of Rome and, upside down, burned him Because he said the stars in the firmament are similar to the sun and probably Earth's going around. That was, that was a sin, right, and I'll be straight with people. A lot of people are against me, yeah, and I've been blacklisted or whitelisted from a lot of things in the cancer world and in some sense, I'm a little bit proud of that I would wear it as a badge of honor.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would, and so you know I tell the kids sometimes it's half a joke. I said you know the, the first primate to try to walk on two legs. All the other, all his friends, all his relatives, get down on all fours, like the rest of us right exactly so that's the way it is with innovation.
Speaker 2:uh, max plank, one of the greatest scientists ever, the developer of quantum mechanics. He says science, science proceeds one funeral at a time. So you got to get rid of these paradigm leaders, so the next paradigm has some room. Exactly, that's human nature. It's not conspiracy, no, it's human nature. So when a new paradigm is raising its head, it's going to get batted down.
Speaker 1:But meanwhile, if you keep coming up, keep coming up, eventually the truth gets to poke its way through it?
Speaker 2:does it? Does you know the truth is a light. Once you poke it through, you can't unpoke it. It took Moses 40 years to get to the promised land Exactly, and he never made it himself. He never made it himself.
Speaker 1:So we have to be patient, exactly. Well, I think I really feel strongly that that is the path that I'm on now and I think that this, this challenge that I've faced, and and it's turned into um a gift that I have now and as I'm overcoming it, I'm not done yet and I tell everybody I still got a long way to go.
Speaker 2:I got a lifetime to go to finish this up you're gonna have to be diligent your whole life, but that's okay. There's no such thing as a cancer cure.
Speaker 1:No, and maybe one day we'll come up with something.
Speaker 2:Maybe I don't know that that's just I don't even see that on the horizon, uh so you know, a pipe dream.
Speaker 1:What we're finding, though, is is a way to. We've already reversed this thing back by two years, and if we can reverse it back another two years, I mean hell. It probably took 20 years to get started, it might have it really took a long time.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so I'll be reversing it until I run out of things. To reverse it with. No, you're not going to run out, but I'm going to continue doing the things that work?
Speaker 1:No, no. But meanwhile we came to this spot where I got, I got the main tumors gone and they wanted to hit me with this radiation. And that's their only answer. Everybody, I, I came up with what about, uh, immunotherapy? No, you don't have it bad enough. And I thought to myself you know, they didn't even really ever give me a diagnosis that gave a staging.
Speaker 2:Well, with immunotherapy, one of the tests is this if your tumor has a lot of mutations, that makes the immunotherapy perhaps work better. But I think, even without that, I think Dr Song wants to try some immunotherapy on you. I think it's reasonable. You haven't had this test. I don't think you need it because he's going to do it anyway. So the heck with the test, right, just go for it.
Speaker 1:Well, and that's so. What happened was, first of all, back to Dr Song. We talked about him a little bit, but this is a guy that, Robert, you brought to my attention. You said this guy thinks outside the box. I knew him 40 years ago. He might be able to help you. And then you were able to connect with him. He agreed to see me. We went and talked to him, shared to him the story. He got visibly upset when he heard what they wanted to do to me and how well what we already did worked. And that's what he couldn't understand he's like, but it worked. Why wouldn't they not want to keep going? And that's what I said I go, I don't know. I tried to get them to do it.
Speaker 2:Because it's not in the guidebook and they wouldn't do it. And if we get off the guidebook, we start feeling insecure.
Speaker 1:Exactly the guidebook is the blankie and doctors have to take some sort of a risk. I don't know what the real risk is. Most of them don't want to do it Exactly.
Speaker 2:They're all worried that they're going to get sued for just doing the guidebook even.
Speaker 1:But here's the coolest thing the insurance. I got a really tough insurance plan. It's not one that just gives you whatever you want, it's a PPO and it's you know. It's pretty strict, and the insurance approved this chemo-only solution, and so I thought to myself well, if the insurance is going to buy it, they're not going to approve a treatment that might cause them a giant lawsuit and a big problem.
Speaker 2:So it's somehow in the book. Dr Song was the applicant Right. They probably know him. He's been in the business for 50 years, yeah, and he has a great reputation.
Speaker 1:So good all around well, if I whatever, for whatever reason, I was able to get it and and the the obstacles in the way were were fewer and farther between than the last time around, so I got my first infusion on Monday, first of the second round 2.1.
Speaker 1:2.1. And I carried around the pump until today. And I went in today and I thought I was just going to get the pump out and I show up and it says, oh, you're going to get a treatment. And I'm like, what treatment? And so two things happened that were three things happened that were different. One, the pump that pumps the five. So the uracil For six days prior only did for five days this time, and I said that's cool, I'm sure they calibrated it. So I got the same amount of medicine. I wasn't worried about that. But then, all of a sudden, I get this second infusion. I'm like what is this? He goes it's the rest of your cisplatin. I'm like, okay, and and it was dr song, not a nurse, not a physician's assistant, that administered this and he said, well, it's a very potent drug and even shared with me. He goes I'm one of the guys that helped discover it, yeah, and was on the team that came up with this.
Speaker 1:I was like beautiful. I'm talking to the guy that knows this better than anything in the world. He says the way they give it to you all at once, it can have some more toxic side effects.
Speaker 2:That makes all the sense in the world Beautiful, give it to him.
Speaker 1:I had to sit in the office today for another two hours. Hey, whatever, that's the least.
Speaker 2:There he is again being innovative. The least, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:And not only that, but he explained it to me and he's the one who put it in me, and it wasn't some nurse who didn't know anything, yeah, yeah, it was him. And so we get through all this, and then we're talking a little bit and I ask him about the immunotherapy. So you know his initial. In the initial consultation he says well, I can approve this. I told him about the three drugs. He says yep, that's solid. He had a term for it it's a cocktail.
Speaker 2:Yeah, alphabet soup.
Speaker 1:Exactly and he's like, yep, that's solid, that's a good protocol. And oh, I know what he said. He said with the fluoruracil. He says we front load it heavy and then it.
Speaker 2:Therefore, you don't need so many days, we don't need so many days?
Speaker 1:And he said that you can handle it better that way.
Speaker 1:So his understanding of how these drugs. He had this giant book that was like this big, that was chemotherapy drugs and their interactions. It's sitting on the desk, something he was just reading, and I'm like, well, I had no idea there was that many chemotherapy drugs and all. There's a lot of, there's a lot of them. So this guy, he knows what he's doing and and and he seems to have a a reasoning behind it. So during the week I got a notice from insurance. I get every day I get things from insurance. It's just insurance.
Speaker 1:That's open up some of them, some of them I don't. I, you know, I do the best I can, but this one I happen to open. I go, I don't know I need to, I need to open this envelope. I open it up and it says you have been approved for this drug. And I didn't recognize the name of the drug. Yeah, it was it's, it was its chemical name and and so I went and I copied it, looked it up and I was like it's an immunotherapy drug. I'm like, oh, wow, it looks like they approved me for this immunotherapy.
Speaker 2:I think because Dr Song applied for it for you.
Speaker 1:And he had told me that. Well, here's two things that happened. Originally, he said you know how were you staged? And I go, I don't know, they never really gave me a staging. And he said after he he staged it at four, eight, yeah, and that was, I guess, the magic number that got it to the insurance. And I don't think, you see, I did that and that's why, you see, I was like, well, it's not, it's not in a place where we could recommend.
Speaker 2:They don't care. You know they don't make more money if they see more patients. They're on a salary. Dr Song, I know that money is not the most important thing for him, but you know he's a businessman too, yeah, he's a businessman too. You don't realize You're a doctor.
Speaker 1:You're a business, absolutely yeah, and there's nothing wrong with that. No, everything's good about it, exactly so. Anyways, however he did it, whatever he did, they approved it. Now he told me that this particular therapy is like $11,000 a session, and I was like, well, that's ridiculous, there's nothing. I mean, even if I had that kind of money, I don't think I would spend it on that.
Speaker 2:I don't know that it would be such a silver bullet that I would. It's not. That's what I know.
Speaker 1:It may help but anyways, I get this, uh, this thing in and I was like they've approved it and I know there's going to be a copay. Well, I don't know what it's going to be, I don't know if it's something that I can do or not, but I started researching, but of course I'm going through my chemo, so it's, it scrles your brains a little bit, it makes it a little hard to focus. Yeah, I came up with a lot of papers that showed a lot of potential side effects, things that were potentially serious Organ you know your heart, your liver, your kidneys, pituitary gland, pituitary gland, your thyroid, all these different things that could be affected. Thyroid, all these different things that could be affected. But there wasn't really anything that really showed like what was a determining factor, like if you had this and you were more likely. I didn't get to that part yet and so I just said, well, I just need to do more more study.
Speaker 1:I said I'll ask him some questions when I see him, and so I did and he's like okay, well, what are your questions? The first thing was well, you know, there's seems like there could be a lot of side effects. What, what you know? Can we do some testing to determine the likelihood of that or the likelihood of success. And he says I'm doing a lot of blood work, we're going to do all that. And he says what else?
Speaker 1:And I says well, it seemed to me that there was more than one way you could take it. You know, like you could take it with the chemo, maybe you could take it after the chemo. I was thinking and I don't know anything, I'm not a scientist, I'm just a guy who trying to get well and pays attention to what I'm doing but I thought to myself you're taking it with this chemo, the immunotherapy is trying to work with your immune system, but the chemotherapy destroys your immune system. I said that seems to be a conflict. Yeah, it's not destroyed, but well, it definitely attacks yeah, yeah yeah, definitely goes after it.
Speaker 1:And I and I thought you know, if you're trying to get your immune system to do its job, maybe if you just did it on its own, give that chemo chance to do a thing and then go do your immunotherapy. And that's just me with my little p-brain going. Maybe that's a good idea. I don't know, maybe there's something wrong with it. But that was the first thing he said. He goes, we would do it more than a week to 10 days after your chemo so that your immune system gets a transfer reboot. And then the other thing he said when when I with uci, when I got the pump, they always injected me with this drug that was supposed to stimulate my bone marrow to generate white blood cells, and I always thought to myself that seems a little excessive. Like why don't you give my immune system a chance to do its thing? Like you got to jumpstart it every time and that was what he said I said are you going to give me that, that injection?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And he said he says, you know, I think that's too much. They, they, they want to jumpstart you every time and he says give your child a chance to recover and you don't necessarily need that, you know. And I says, wow, I mean everything he's doing. He comes up with a reason for it and my thought was well, maybe that's a good idea.
Speaker 1:I mean, at least, I thought about these things for years and years exactly so I, I went from, you know, being excited that I got approved for this drug, but I didn't know if I wanted to take it and I wasn't going to just jump in and just because I could do something. I was just like radiation and surgery. I could have had both of them too, but I didn't want them and they would have been approved and they would have been approved and I would have been, you know, devastated. And I think, through all of this, you, you know, I told you, I I connected with this group of people and through facebook that it's got like 1700 squamous cell carcinoma patients and survivors and and advocates, and I just keep seeing over and over and over the same thing and and this disease progresses ridiculously fast, it metastasizes everywhere in the body, it, the standard of care, treatments are brutal, like they cut out chunks of people's heads and their noses and their jaws and their I mean their ears, I mean I mean they just, they just hack you up.
Speaker 2:And I keep seeing pictures. Can you imagine if they would have gone on neoadjuvant chemo like you?
Speaker 1:Right, and so now I'm starting to present my story to these people, and I've already had two people now reach out to me a little bit wanting to know more.
Speaker 2:Of course you're not just doing the standard neoadjuvant, no, You're adding methionine oxygen. But the whole concept why you have to go in with a knife and disfigure people Right, when you can start off with some chemo and see how much you can shrink the thing Exactly or even disappear, it Start off with a chemo, it's not good. No, I totally agree. People say it's Start over.
Speaker 1:Hear it. It's not, it's not good. No, I totally agree it's so much.
Speaker 2:You know. People say it's so horrible, but it's a lot less horrible than the radiation, or surely, the surgery.
Speaker 1:Well, the radiation is all but guaranteed to leave you damaged for the rest of your life. The surgery is guaranteed to leave you damaged for the rest of your life.
Speaker 1:And head and neck cancer, severely disfigured in many cases and, and not only just that, but debilitating they would have. They would oh, you saw where that thing was. I mean, they would have I would have been a freak, yeah, yeah, you know. And then the back of my tongue they would have. They would have taken the whole back of my tongue out. It would have been horrible, horrible, and I, I likely would have lost my voice, I likely would have lost my, my sense of taste.
Speaker 1:I mean, look, the chemo is bad enough, like it gives you a taste in your mouth that of course you're starting to come back again. I'm like, ah, but it's, it's a big time thing. But you know what, whatever you just you shake it off and you keep going. Exactly, you don't, you know, shake it off. The thing that is the big time thing is when this thing spreads to your lungs and your lymph nodes and then you wake up dead. That's the thing, yeah, that's the big thing, yeah. And so I just really feel blessed and I really feel inspired that you know, there was not one thing.
Speaker 2:This whole journey. Cancer is not. You don't treat cancer with one thing, and that's the key. Not at our stage of the knowledge. Oh, no, no.
Speaker 1:Everybody has to know, and Dr Song, he respected what I told him. You know the things that I've told him that I understand what I'm saying and what I don't know. You know I said look, I'm just going after my cancer. I don't know what other people's things are doing, I don't care, I have no idea, I just know what. I'm trying to solve this problem. Yeah, and you know to recognize that this is a unique problem to me, recognize that this is a unique problem to me, and you know. But when you find a problem that has a lot of common factors, just like the low methionine diet the methionine is the oxidative therapies these are things that affect most, if not all, cancers Well, exactly, and so we can extrapolate from trying to solve a very specific problem some tools that can help maybe most people, if not all people, to some degree. You know, I think that I think, yeah, not everybody gets this dramatic result that I got, no, but everybody can help, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2:And the people that are most diligent do the best, and there's a lot of people that just can't be diligent. I really I'm learning that and that's the hardest part.
Speaker 1:That's human nature too, okay you know, especially with you and and your treatment and your protocol, it's hard, yeah, and most people, I just think, don't have the wherewithal to well stay the course and when we had this nih symposium right, uh, they, they.
Speaker 2:Some of the speakers said oh, we can't keep patients on exactly low methionine diet. So we never can do the trials right, but we, our zoom group shows you can you, can, you can. And I think, the reason so many people in our Zoom group stay on it. We've motivated them Right and you show that this is the way to help keep you going.
Speaker 1:Well, and when you show somebody like Scott or Shahiro or myself with these dramatic, dramatic, like you were going to die soon. You were metastatic, you were on a collision course to a grave yeah, that's what they've told President Biden.
Speaker 2:We're just giving you palliative and he's probably not much different than.
Speaker 1:Scott, exactly, and that's the craziest thing is if somebody was to say, look, we could shift this thing around, there's a thing we could do, and it wouldn't take. It only took me a couple of months of being on the diet and if you're not into the paradigm. Exactly.
Speaker 2:And the paradigm has not gained dominance. There's not been. We're in the new paradigm, but there hasn't been the shift. Exactly A little bit, a little bit.
Speaker 1:It's starting. It's starting, you know, this symposium.
Speaker 2:Yep, that was a big deal start this symposium and that I think that's your patient, dave, and yes, dr, she x, I and and I each they, they are great. I think it's fantastic.
Speaker 1:Well, I I am just so very grateful for all the work you're doing here and I think the next time when I come up here, hopefully we'll be able to uh interview some of the the other doctors that are working here.
Speaker 2:You got it. I want you to interview Dr Han Uh-huh he's a really key person and Dr Lee they're the two key people that make the methioninase.
Speaker 1:Nice.
Speaker 2:The Japanese doctor is doing the leading research, the Korean doctor is doing the leading research, nice and Jose, the best mouse breeder. Anyway, there's a lot of endless things you can talk to people about here.
Speaker 1:Well, I love it and I'm looking forward to. Maybe, when we come back the next time, we can talk about your anti-cancer foundation and a little bit about how this came to be. Well, we can talk about everything. Excellent, all right, robert. Well, I am so grateful to be able to share this time with you.
Speaker 2:The first podcast here at Anti-Cancer with Joe won't be the last Absolutely, and we'll be here, and Liz will be here. We're all going to have a good time excellent.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you everybody for supporting the show and we will see you next time.
