Healthy Living by Willow Creek Springs
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Healthy Living by Willow Creek Springs
The NIH is finally taking methionine restriction seriously.with Dr Robert Hoffman
The fight against cancer takes a significant turn as the National Institutes of Health finally acknowledges decades of research on methionine restriction. Dr. Robert Hoffman shares how this breakthrough came about largely through one persistent patient's advocacy, culminating in the first-ever NIH symposium dedicated to exploring how methionine restriction can combat cancer.
"Every life is so precious that we can help," Dr. Hoffman emphasizes during this compelling conversation that bridges cutting-edge science with practical patient advocacy. The discussion reveals how methionine restriction research actually began at the NIH back in 1959, yet despite 2,000+ peer-reviewed studies, this approach remained largely overlooked by mainstream oncology until now.
Host Joe Grumbine shares his personal journey using methionine restriction alongside targeted chemotherapy for squamous cell carcinoma. His story offers a powerful contrast to conventional treatment protocols - instead of suffering through devastating side effects, Joe appears remarkably healthy just four months into treatment. "I've gone from death's door to people looking at me saying, 'Wow, that's a healthy guy,'" Joe reveals.
This episode delivers essential insights for anyone facing cancer or supporting loved ones through treatment. Both men emphasize the importance of informed decision-making and effective communication with medical professionals. Dr. Hoffman's reminder that "doctors are service providers and patients are customers" empowers listeners to take an active role in their treatment plans rather than passively accepting recommendations that may cause unnecessary suffering.
Whether you're dealing with cancer personally or supporting someone who is, this conversation offers hope through scientifically-backed alternatives that complement conventional approaches while potentially minimizing their harshest effects. Join the growing community exploring these options through the weekly Zoom discussions mentioned in the show notes.
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Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy Living Podcast. I'm your host, joe Grumbine, and today we have back with us Dr Robert Hoffman from the Anti-Cancer Foundation. Robert, welcome back. Thank you, joe, always glad to be here. Oh, it's great to have these conversations. I think a lot of people are learning a lot, and I'm hoping to create a pathway for people to find answers to their own problems, whether it's cancer or anything else. I think this is creating a pathway that's helpful. It's been a little while since we've sat together and, of course, things keep happening. As you know, this journey of healing just doesn't stop. It either goes one direction or the other. We're trying to keep it moving forward in the healing side of things, and I also wanted to talk about this series of symposiums that the NIH has put on, and I thought that was actually, even though maybe it's a little underwhelming. It's also very exciting to see that people at this level are having a conversation about methionine and the methionine restriction. What are your thoughts?
Speaker 2:I think it's great, joe. You know I've been in the field. I've been studying methionine dependence, addiction, restriction of cancer, whatever. 52 years, right, the first, the NIH putting on a symposium on this topic. I think it's amazing and I want to. In large part not all it's due to one of our patients, dave.
Speaker 2:Favaro who relentlessly would telephone people at the NIH. He himself is on a clinical trial at the NIH. He goes there every few months to get a scanning for his prostate cancer as part of this clinical trial and we talked to a few people that are leaders at the NIH, in particular the National Cancer Institute, and they were very nice but not committal. Finally, dave got a hold of I guess she's a program director Dr Shi X-I, and she did it. It took a while, took a few months, but she got this symposium going. It took a while, took a few months, but she got this symposium going. We've already had two sessions with four or five talks in each one by various people in Dr Shee's program who have received NIH grants or NCI grants. All the talks have been interesting. There's going to be another session on July 29. I'm told that I will be part of that. I'm not sure what will be. It's okay, I'd love to be part of it. If I'm not, it's still good. The very fact that it exists is a really good thing.
Speaker 2:And let me tell you what's happened on the human side. So, dave Ferraro, you know he's been going to the big clinical center at the NIH. It's called Building 10. It's probably the greatest hospital in the world and he you know he would talk to people about what he's doing. He's been taking methioninase for two to three years. He's been on a low methionine diet two to three years or more. His prostate cancer is totally under control and you know everybody. He would talk to them. Yeah, uh-huh, yeah, uh-huh. That was nice.
Speaker 2:Then the last time he went there, he became a rock star. Everybody in the clinic knew about this symposia and Dave let him know. Yeah, because of me and Dr Shee and every doctor started coming in the room, nurses coming in the room. Everybody wanted to talk to Dave, shake his hand. I don't know if they asked for autographs or not. Dave's now a rock star and it seems like it's common knowledge around the whole NIH that this symposium is ongoing. I love it. Due to certain restrictions in communication that's been coming out the last six months, right, right.
Speaker 1:Oops, we're glitching here. For some reason, I'm not hearing you right now.
Speaker 2:The steering committee of our Zoom is allowed to be on it, but silent. Zoom is allowed to be on it, but silent. This is out of kind of fear about communications restrictions that have been put in since January or so. Never used to be like that Right. So it's a kind of miracle and I sure it's going to spread around the world. I think it's all been recorded. I don't know the plan, but it's going to get out there. There's no question it's going to get out there.
Speaker 1:So I think this is this exemplifies a couple of things. Number one you know Dave's persistence and willingness to get out there and keep telling his story and keep pushing. I think that's instrumental. You know, it's what I do, it's what you do, it's what so many people that are that are trying to further this knowledge out there are doing. We just keep trying to keep talking to whoever will listen and and you keep showing them the truth and eventually, you know you're going to break through one time or another, but, yeah, in a place where the people he got to break through are connected and respected in a way that really can have a lasting effect, and that was, you know, just, it's a miracle and just a lot of hard work all at the same time. I think it's great.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't know what the plan is for the next symposium. We're supposed to get it on Monday. We didn't get it yet. To get it on Monday we didn't get it yet. If they indeed include me, as they said they would, I'm going to feature the patients, and one of them is going to be you.
Speaker 1:I love it, I love it.
Speaker 2:So I'm hopeful. But even if that doesn't come to be, it's been fantastic, something that never happened before it's happened. The field itself is 65 years old. It started in that very building, building 10, in 1959, with Dr Sugi Murad visiting from Japan and Dr Greenfield's lab way back then, and he discovered you take methionine out of the rat chow and the tumors in the rat slowed way down more than taking anything else out of the rat chow. That's how it all began.
Speaker 1:Nice, right there, I love it. I love it. Well, I'm getting a taste of the frustration that you face of knowing this knowledge and sharing this knowledge and just nobody knows about it. And everywhere I go, I talk about my story and everywhere I go, people look at me with a blank look and whether it's a doctor, a practitioner, a cancer patient or somebody who's a caretaker, but but you know, I just keep telling the story one by one, refer them to the publications, joe, I do.
Speaker 2:There's now 2,000 papers on PubMed, which is available to everybody in the cosmos.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:Since 1959, 2,000 papers on methionine dependence, methionine addiction, methionine restriction Yep. 2,000 papers on methionine dependence, methionine addiction, methionine restriction 2,000 papers.
Speaker 1:This is peer-reviewed. You know it's a penetration problem, but the very fact of this symposium means things are changing Right exactly, are changing right exactly, and and the people that are taken seriously, or or at least considered, are the ones that are hosting this. So that means that conversation is going to be shined in a little bit different light, and I think that's and and they give money.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly, uh. So you know it's extremely competitive to get the money right but every speaker. So far there's been 10 or 12 of them and they're all. They all have grants from the national cancer institute, I think Institute, I think under Dr Shih's program, I believe. So it's.
Speaker 1:Well, imagine this All of a sudden, they start awarding grants to these experiments on methionine restriction and even maybe methionine is and then, all of a sudden, we start maybe leading the way to human trials.
Speaker 2:Joe, unofficial trials are ongoing. You know, we get the trials, that's okay, it's good. We don't get the trials, hey, we're going forward. We new. I have two, three new patients every day. I love it. So around the world, around the world, um so definitely, definitely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know that just in my communication from this podcast and just from being somebody who talks to everybody, I come near more and more. I got two people this last week that are both stage four survivors and I got them to consider the diet. I got them both on hominids and I've invited them both to the call and I told them about you. I've given them your contact information. Everybody's free to call me. Yeah, I tell them, I give them your email and I said just send them an email, give them my cell phone too, joe, I wanted to be okay, that that was okay.
Speaker 1:I didn't want to, just yeah, give it out what the heck.
Speaker 2:What am I going to do? Hide the cell phone and not talk to people.
Speaker 1:I love it. No, never take that liberty unless I know I'm okay.
Speaker 2:I understand that and I appreciate it. I'm here to help. I'm 81. I don't know how much longer I'm going to be around, but, boy, every minute I want to help people, I love it, I love it.
Speaker 1:That's the attitude that I think we all have. I think that the cancer survivors and the cancer victors, we all have this incredible lust for life. We love to live and we want to stay that way and we want to take our life and make it meaningful and by helping other people that are otherwise, you know, going down a road that's going to lead them to suffering and a short life. Well, what if you could affect that in a positive way? I think it's. Well, we are.
Speaker 2:Joe, we are. And you know what does it say in the Bible you save one life, you save everybody. I mean, every life is so precious that we can help.
Speaker 1:And every person that you reach you know they're going to tell one more person. I have people now calling me. I get two or three new people a week that are reaching out to me. Somebody told somebody and the word's starting to get out. Boy, that's good. I take every call, I talk to them, I tell them what I can and even today I had some people setting up for a retreat over the weekend and this one guy just talking to me. Next thing, you know, I'm telling him my story. Next thing, you know, you know he thought he knew a thing and he doesn't have cancer, but it doesn't matter, he's a smart guy, he knows plenty of people who do a whole bunch of his relatives do.
Speaker 1:There's nobody free of this disease no, absolutely not, and and and so. So this takes me to another topic. So I've been talking about our Sunday Zoom call since I joined it. I think it's one of the most powerful groups of people I've ever been a part of, and the methioninease and all of these people are free in discussing their stories and their other solutions on top. You know the methionine restriction and methioninease is a part of it, but we're always adding things on top of it. Whether it's oxygen therapy or chemotherapy or exercise or whatever. We're doing things in combination to solve the problem. There's no limit of things we can do to help Exactly, and so these people that are sharing their personal experiences that's knowledge that you can't get out of a book or a study or anything, or a scientific paper, no no, no, this is a real deal, directly from the patient.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so that's huge. And I've joined a couple of other groups. I've sat in on the Nori group a little bit and they've got some good stuff they talk about. I've I just joined a group. It's a it's a Facebook group, but it is specifically a squamous cell carcinoma patient group and there are 14 or 1500 active members in this and 16,000 people in it and I just sat in initially. I'm just listening before I jump in and start talking, but I'm listening and you know, mostly what I'm hearing are people that have gone through the same radiation chemo treatment they want to give me and talking about the suffering and the pain and the anguish that they've gone through and the feeding tubes and the weight loss Worse than the cancer, worse than the cancer Exactly. And that's something that I just want people that are listening to this to consider that if you find yourself with cancer and you go to the doctor which I recommend, go to the doctor, have them.
Speaker 2:You got to go to the doctor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So so I'm not against any of that, but take your time and listen to what they're suggesting to do, cause they can't make you do anything, and research it and learn about it. And and as I did, you know, I talked to a surgeon and he said we need to give you radiation chemo and then I'm going to operate. Then I talked to the radiation guy and he says oh no, don't get the surgery, you're going to be disfigured and let's just do my radiation and chemo. And then I talked to the chemo doctor. She says yeah, listen to the radiation guy. And then I talked to you and these other people and we came up with another answer that basically left me the same as I started, except for I don't have so much hair, but I don't have a tumor either.
Speaker 1:And so you know everybody I talked to today. I just talked to a kid today who said, you know I was telling him about, you know, the last six months and where I was at three months ago. And he says wow, when I first saw you I said you're a very fit and healthy guy. That's what his first impression was of me and that's only 10 weeks after I began this treatment and less than four months of me being on the methionine restriction diet and taking the methionine. It's only four months since I started that and you know I've gone from on death's door to people are looking at me going, wow, that's a healthy guy and that's huge. You know most people that go through cancer treatment. They spend the rest of their life frail and weak and not ever going.
Speaker 1:No need Look at Hozumi, look at you, yes absolutely, and I think that's the the critical part about sharing our story the radiation and the surgery.
Speaker 2:Yes, chemo did it all, along with methionine ace, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:So I wanted to share a little bit about the story. I had my follow up with the doctor, with the medical oncologist, after the CT scan and I have still the follow up in person with the radio oncologist next Thursday and they're doing. You know already what he's going to say, I know exactly, but I'm going to record it and I'm going to you got to go, you got to go, I'm going to go, I'm going to give it another shot.
Speaker 2:Listen and discuss and tell what you want. This is what I want. Exactly Help me get what I want. If I need your radiation, I'm going to let you know Exactly.
Speaker 1:And you know I'm doing it in a way that's not adversarial and I always am clear that my goal is to do the most amount of good with the least amount of harm. Can I say something Sure?
Speaker 2:I don't, before I forget it. Yeah, yeah, All these doctors, they are service providers, right, and they're very, very educated, very highly intelligent, very highly skilled. I have all the respect in the world for them, right, but they're service providers, correct. And who are we, the patients? We're the customer. Yes, we're the customer. We're the customer. We're either paying out of our own pocket, or we're paying from the insurance that we get from wherever, or we're paying from the Medicare that comes to us. We're paying, yes. So we got to have the final say we're the customer. Yep, don't sell me something I don't want and I'm paying for it.
Speaker 1:Exactly, Exactly, and that's really been the key of my message is listen to the doctor, do your own research, evaluate it and make a good choice, and you know there's going to be good and maybe not so good information from everybody you talk to.
Speaker 2:Well, you go out and you want to buy a house. You look at this one and that one and the other one and this one and you find the one you like. The same with the doctor.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly. So that's kind of where I'm at. So I'll be kind of brief about the conversation, because it's kind of what you would have expected. And I walked through. She walked through the CT scan and her interpretation was that the primary tumor at the back of my tongue and the secondary tumor on the side of my neck are gone and that there is still a mass in two lymph nodes. And I said to her well, okay, I understand that. She says I'm actually disappointed that they didn't go away entirely.
Speaker 2:Well, at least one of the masses, or the total, two masses, whatever had a very significant, at least a third, exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it affected them for sure and I mentioned that. I says, well, they're a lot smaller than they were number one. And the truth is they could still be shrinking and we don't know the answer to that. And the other truth is we don't know what it is. We know that it could be necrotic tissue. It could be non-cancerous.
Speaker 1:Only the MedPet scan is going to tell us the real story PET scan is going to tell us the real story and that's really kind of what she said. She goes well, even if we did a biopsy we wouldn't know. We have to get the whole thing out. And I says, well, I don't want Dead tissue, right, exactly. So that's, I got her to acknowledge that number one. We don't know that it's cancerous and we also don't know that it's not continuing to shrink until we check it again. And so she, she acknowledged that and and then I went on and I talked about the different tests.
Speaker 1:I talked about that Signatera test that you talked about. I talked about the liquid biopsy test. I talked about the squamous cell carcinoma antigen test that they have. There's a number of. There's a circulating tumor test, tumor cell test, and she really kind of said well, that NAVDX test tells me what I need to know. And so she kind of poo-pooed that and said she wasn't going to order any further tests. I says, all right, well, I'll work on that myself, and it's okay, she didn't have a problem with me doing it.
Speaker 2:And if folks know about the Life Extension website, you can order tests.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and if you just know what to ask for, it's not that difficult of a process. So I'm in the process of determining which tests I can get and which ones how often I can get a whole lot of them Exactly.
Speaker 1:So what I told her is you know, her plan is for me to continue with this high dose radiation and it is five days a week for six weeks and they strap you down with this shield, they build around your head and chest and they blast the heck out of you. And I told her, and then you get chemotherapy on top of that. And she said well, the chemotherapy by itself isn't going to do the job, but it helps. Look what it did so far. I know exactly and it's. Look what it did so far. I know exactly and it's.
Speaker 1:I don't see the logic. I know, and that was where I was like okay, I'm just trying to get where she's coming from so that I know what to even mention or not mention. It's coming from the guidelines, joe, I know, and that's what I really came to realize. I talked to her about immunotherapy, which I found in several papers that determined that there's an immunotherapy chemotherapy combination that is used with my cancer. And she says, well, we can't do that because you're not metastatic, and that's the only. But you are metastatic.
Speaker 2:I know it's in the lymph nodes.
Speaker 1:It's in my lymph nodes exactly, but they're not classifying it like that right now. And she said, well, it's not approved for the cancer. You have the way you have it and we couldn't even get it through insurance if we wanted it right now. And it says, well, that I can understand, but geez, would you not even? You don't know what you're going to get through insurance. I know why, wouldn't you even?
Speaker 2:try. Maybe you present it correctly and you might have a chance.
Speaker 1:Well, and that's why I'm still going. So what I've been doing and with this group I've been getting tidbits of other drugs. People are using other chemo combinations. Not everybody's doing the radiation chemo. Most people have not talked about diet or herbs or certain. I've not seen any reference to methionine yet, but I'll be integrating it. I'm just trying to get myself into the group without being, you know, not. This is the squamous cell group. Yeah, yeah, and it's all around the world. This is people from around the world. It's an incredibly big group.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and boy, I mean to hear the horror stories. Oh, it's mostly horror stories and a lot of people you know. The biggest horror story I'm hearing is somebody gets diagnosed and they get a biopsy or they get a test that comes back positive and then their doctor doesn't move. They say that they're waiting for months and they're not getting any cause for treatment. And I'm just like this is a cancer that the more I learn about it, the more aggressive I realize it is and it wants to metastasize and it's good at it and it spreads to your lungs, it spreads to your lymph nodes and it gets all around your body quickly if you give it a chance, and for a doctor to to not decide that, wow, as soon as you discover something that's this deadly and this and this aggressive, why you wouldn't stop what you're doing and begin a treatment of some sort is beside. I can't understand it, so I don't know.
Speaker 1:Well, it's in different places around the world, it's not just here in the States, and you know there's a myriad of different situations, but I just realized. And then there's people who you know they don't have insurance or good insurance and they're getting evicted while they're. You know, people don't realize when you're getting these treatments it's, it's debilitating. Even the chemo knocked me out pretty bad and you can't really work, you can't do what you normally are doing because you're busy fighting this thing. And so if you don't have some kind of cushion or some kind of insurance, you know people are losing their homes, they're losing their you know their livelihoods, at the same time Very unfortunate, yeah. So, understanding that I've got, you know, I've got empathy, but really what I have now is a determination. I believe.
Speaker 1:In my own research I found out that this three drug cocktail that did so much good for me is approved for up to six doses and before it has a toxic level, and I don't know if that's all at once or just over an overload. And so I realized that I have to go to the medical records in order to get the images for my CT scans, which I'm going to be doing this coming Thursday. So I have to go and get a chemo or a port flush. They have to run this something through me to make sure that it doesn't clog, because I'm going to keep the port in until I know I'm done.
Speaker 2:It has to be patent, as they say.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So they say every four to six weeks. I got to get that done. So I'm getting that done and I'm meeting with the radio oncologist. I'm going to present to him the same things I presented to her radio oncologist. I'm going to present to him the same things I presented to her and the way I'm going to offer this is number one I still have not gotten my dental clearance because I couldn't do any dental work while I was getting the chemo. So I've got to begin that process again. That gives me a solid reason why I can't begin this.
Speaker 1:But number two I'm just going to lay it out for him that I've got another scan in three months scheduled and I most definitely want to see what happens between now and three months.
Speaker 1:And the two tumors are gone, the two masses in my lymph nodes have shrunk. So the worst thing that's going to happen is we'll notice some change for the negative and then I would make a decision of what I'm going to do next. Change for the negative and then I would make a decision of what I'm going to do next. But I think it's rational and I don't think it's adversarial and I think that you know, I don't want to lose these people and say, well, we can't treat you anymore because you're not listening to us. I'm just that can happen, I know that and that's what I'm trying to make sure doesn't happen. So I'm not approaching them in an adversarial way at all, I'm just saying, look, I think it's best that we just sit on this for a minute. We've come so far, I'm doing fantastic, I know what the negative side effects are and in order for me to agree to that, it has to be a pretty dire situation and I don't believe that's going to happen.
Speaker 1:It has to be. There's no other way. Right, exactly that would be the treatment of last resort, and I've got a lot of. You've run out of chemo, yeah, and you're still growing. Exactly Okay, turn on the radiation Right. So now my mission is to. I'm going to get these scan reports. I'm going to bring them to Dr Castro. Hopefully he'll see me and agree to work. He'll see you. You may have to wait a little bit.
Speaker 2:You may have to make a little bit of noise.
Speaker 1:We'll do what we got to do. But he said something that was concerning to me when my tumor was big and I told him about you know we up with the, with the chemo treatment, and that they agreed to do it. It was really just before I got the port installed that I saw him last and he said you need to do that radiation because they have to do it or they're not going to be able to treat you, and he seemed like he was very positive of me taking that radiation. So I hope.
Speaker 2:Well, you know he's probably had good experience with it, maybe, but, joe, that was before you had this fantastic response Exactly when he saw me last I was, that was Joe 1.0.
Speaker 1:Exactly, exactly. So I'm hoping that when he sees me today or when he sees me soon, he'll see the difference of what we did and he understands the methionine restriction and the methionine A's, he accepts it, he understands it as well as anybody. Exactly so. Finally, I've got one doctor out of all of them that I've talked to that even know what I'm talking about and and accept that as a positive piece of the puzzle. So that's kind of where we're at. I feel positive about that and I know.
Speaker 2:Joe, I would if it were me. I'd find some doc that will give me another three cycles of the same three, the same cocktail you've gotten so far, to get as much out of that cocktail as you can. Go as far as you can with that cocktail. I totally agree. There's a good chance that it's going to be all gone by then, and if it's not all gone, then we got to do plan B Right, and it might be another cocktail or it might be.
Speaker 1:Finally, we go to the radiation and I I'm looking at this immunotherapy chemo combination that that is being used um and that would certainly be preferable to the radiation if I've, if I can get that.
Speaker 2:The trouble is, like the doc said, the immunotherapy is incredibly expensive. Oh, I didn't know that. 10,000 a round, I don't know. So, to get the insurance Got it, go with it, I don't know. Okay, okay, let's just go by logic, right, just stupid logic, simple logic. Right, just stupid logic, simple logic. Hey, I've had three treatments and I've got a tremendous response. Right, literature says hey, you can probably get another three before the toxicity really kicks in. Right, can't I just try another three? Right, exactly, I'll, probably can go, we've gone so far another three how far we can go.
Speaker 2:We've gone so far. You know, when Otani is pitching with a good fastball and curveball, what's he supposed to do? Stop that and go to the knuckleball.
Speaker 1:Exactly, I mean, you do what works.
Speaker 2:You know it's working. Why we have to stop?
Speaker 1:what's working. Yeah, it makes no sense, and that's really. I'm going to start with dr castro and then after that I'm going to start researching um probably find some integrative yes, castro's an integrative guy. Find another integrative guy, girl um, and I'll just start setting up consultations until I find somebody that'll listen to me. You'll find somebody, you'll find somebody, and you know I'm persistent. You know I'm not gonna give up till I get.
Speaker 2:Let me just give you a name, sure from long ago okay his name is Tom Song, like singing a song, okay, and I used to know and he used to give people incredibly high-dose chemo. Okay, he was very controversial but he held his ground. Okay, my understanding, he's still practicing. Okay, probably be close to my age up there. All right, he's a good guy. Keep him in mind. He practices south of San Diego somewhere.
Speaker 1:Doesn't matter Wherever he is. That's where I'll go. Yeah, I'm not worried about it, I'll go where I need to. Tom's Tom. All right, I will look him up. Well, Robert, I think we've covered a lot of ground. It's always a pleasure to talk to you. It's always a pleasure to talk to you and I'm excited to hear about this symposium and I feel like, little by little, the information is getting out there and I believe, more and more, these cancers that are killing people are going to kill less people and people are not going to have to take such invasive, devastating treatments. They'll get more value out of less, uh, harmful treatments. And you know, we we just learn to adapt a lifestyle that doesn't give that cancer a place to live there you go, beautiful all right, robert, well well, the.
Speaker 2:This is the new, this is the new way.
Speaker 1:Yes, and you know, the one thing that I've gotten is that when I'm talking to these doctors, they're listening to me because I'm talking their language and I'm using their papers and I'm not just throwing words out there. They know that I've done research and I'm You're not a crank, you're not a quack Exactly so if you can get yourself up to a knowledge stream and the language that you can have a civil conversation with somebody, you'd be surprised They'll.
Speaker 2:At least it's an informed conversation, Civil and informed. The most important thing is to be informed. There's PubMed out there. Everybody can look at the papers and no matter how much jargon is in the paper, if you get through the summary you can get the point.
Speaker 1:Take your time and look it up. Yeah, it's worth it, and and and AI can help translate it.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely, I totally agree.
Speaker 1:Well, Robert, I'm looking forward to talking to you again on Sunday and remember we have a Zoom call on Sunday and it's actually a link in all the show notes of these podcasts, so look down at the bottom of the notes. You can click on that and everybody's warmly welcomed. Exactly.
Speaker 2:Excellent.
Speaker 1:All right, robert Well, thank you so much, and you have a great show, warmly welcomed, exactly Excellent. All right, robert Well, thank you so much. Thank you, joe. Always great to be on Beautiful. We'll see you all next time. Folks See you in a few, all right.
